Should True Orthodox reject Latin Orthodox icons?

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Justice
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Re: Should True Orthodox reject Latin Orthodox icons?

Postby Justice » Tue 29 August 2017 4:43 am

Funny, I found a parallel for this question. The Arian baptistery's mosaics look very similar to Eastern Orthodox mosaics this has led many historians to think that the Arian baptistery mosaics were made by Orthodox Christians, who were paid by the OstroGoths.

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Re: Should True Orthodox reject Latin Orthodox icons?

Postby d9popov » Mon 4 September 2017 10:17 pm

Yes, the Mother of God remained Ever-Virgin before, during, and after the miraculous birth of the God-Man. At the same time, hundreds of correct Orthodox icons of Christ's Nativity over many centuries have been painted with a midwife and a bath. This was traditional in that culture and traditional in many Orthodox icons. It does not imply any heresy about Christ's miraculous birth. We should NOT cast out these holy icons; they are traditional and must be venerated as our fathers have always venerated them. That is what Holy Tradition teaches, so we cannot depart from it. With that said, there are many icons that do depart from Holy Tradition to various degrees. Bishops must use good spiritual judgment on these. There is no excuse, today, for purchasing icons that depart from Holy Tradition. There are many, many "ecumenist-Orthodox," Eastern and Latin Roman Catholics, Protestants, and others who paint icons. We should be very careful. Traditional icons are easy to find if one knows what to look for. Also, it is the church building and the Holy Table that are consecrated. The walls of the church are anointed using a long pole. There are divergent customs on icons. Some Church Fathers taught that icons are holy after being panted and after the name is written on it; the icons can then be venerated without any further prayer. Later, some prayers were developed for icons.

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Re: Should True Orthodox reject Latin Orthodox icons?

Postby Justice » Thu 14 December 2017 10:39 pm

Looking back on this thread I realized my question wan't fully answered.

Image

Image

One definitely looks more traditional than the other. Maybe these "latinized" icons became part of the Orthodox Church via the Ecumenical movement?

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Re: Should True Orthodox reject Latin Orthodox icons?

Postby Barbara » Fri 15 December 2017 4:01 am

No, these have been around for a very long time, much predating the modern ecumenical tendencies.

I have to admit that I much like that 2nd one, though it must be a Sofrino product [MP main Church goods factory].
I would like to buy that for myself. I like the Savior's eyes in that and the calmness of the depiction.
In Bulgaria, I saw a particular style which was in many Churches, which was like this, though nowhere near as ornate.
I have one here, in fact, that I brought back.

It's more a realistic style, thus gets equated with "Latinized" Icon depictions. But in fact these and similar ones were omnipresent in the 19th century in Russia, as far as I am aware. So, no, it's nothing to do with ecumenism.
You can breathe a sigh of relief, Justice.

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Re: Should True Orthodox reject Latin Orthodox icons?

Postby Justice » Fri 15 December 2017 4:20 am

Barbara wrote:No, these have been around for a very long time, much predating the modern ecumenical tendencies.

I have to admit that I much like that 2nd one, though it must be a Sofrino product [MP main Church goods factory].
I would like to buy that for myself. I like the Savior's eyes in that and the calmness of the depiction.
In Bulgaria, I saw a particular style which was in many Churches, which was like this, though nowhere near as ornate.
I have one here, in fact, that I brought back.

It's more a realistic style, thus gets equated with "Latinized" Icon depictions. But in fact these and similar ones were omnipresent in the 19th century in Russia, as far as I am aware. So, no, it's nothing to do with ecumenism.
You can breathe a sigh of relief, Justice.

Thank you for putting my mind at rest.

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Justice
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Re: Should True Orthodox reject Latin Orthodox icons?

Postby Justice » Fri 15 December 2017 4:24 am

Barbara wrote:No, these have been around for a very long time, much predating the modern ecumenical tendencies.

I have to admit that I much like that 2nd one, though it must be a Sofrino product [MP main Church goods factory].
I would like to buy that for myself. I like the Savior's eyes in that and the calmness of the depiction.
In Bulgaria, I saw a particular style which was in many Churches, which was like this, though nowhere near as ornate.
I have one here, in fact, that I brought back.

It's more a realistic style, thus gets equated with "Latinized" Icon depictions. But in fact these and similar ones were omnipresent in the 19th century in Russia, as far as I am aware. So, no, it's nothing to do with ecumenism.
You can breathe a sigh of relief, Justice.

You're correct that this predates Russia as it technically dates back to the 4th century. This mosaic from the San Pudenziana church in Rome, has a similar style. (the angels at both the top right and left are from the renaissance so they don't count.)

Image

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Justice
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Re: Should True Orthodox reject Latin Orthodox icons?

Postby Justice » Sat 16 December 2017 11:36 pm

d9popov wrote:Yes, the Mother of God remained Ever-Virgin before, during, and after the miraculous birth of the God-Man. At the same time, hundreds of correct Orthodox icons of Christ's Nativity over many centuries have been painted with a midwife and a bath. This was traditional in that culture and traditional in many Orthodox icons. It does not imply any heresy about Christ's miraculous birth. We should NOT cast out these holy icons; they are traditional and must be venerated as our fathers have always venerated them.

This makes sense, it also brings up the Mattewite 1992 encyclical again which condemns such icons.


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