Is World Orthodoxy better than no Orthodoxy?

[Ainnir]

Hello! I'm new here. I'm coming from a Methodist and Baptist Protestant background, have been researching Eastern Orthodoxy for three years, and have had about 6 months of Divine Liturgy services. I've been in a sort of limbo it feels like. I can't go back (well I could, but it would be unfulfilling to downright unpleasant). But at this point, I have no idea if I'm ready even for catechism as I'm wondering whether I came to Orthodoxy for the right reasons. I still have my hills and my checks and balances, so to speak.

And now I realize there are other forms of Orthodoxy. I didn't look into the Oriental Orthodox churches, and now I find the True Orthodox Church, which as far as I can tell does have some compelling points. But I'm still working on understanding the history behind all of this, which will take me a while.

Regardless of the fruits of that endeavor, there is only one Orthodox parish I would be able to go to and it's a GOARCH parish (this is where I'm attending now). Is that better than any other option (no church, Catholic church, Protestant church)?

I'm having a hard time in general with what may or may not be my conversion.

[Maria]

Hello! I'm new here. I'm coming from a Methodist and Baptist Protestant background, have been researching Eastern Orthodoxy for three years, and have had about 6 months of Divine Liturgy services. I've been in a sort of limbo it feels like. I can't go back (well I could, but it would be unfulfilling to downright unpleasant). But at this point, I have no idea if I'm ready even for catechism as I'm wondering whether I came to Orthodoxy for the right reasons. I still have my hills and my checks and balances, so to speak.

And now I realize there are other forms of Orthodoxy. I didn't look into the Oriental Orthodox churches, and now I find the True Orthodox Church, which as far as I can tell does have some compelling points. But I'm still working on understanding the history behind all of this, which will take me a while.

Regardless of the fruits of that endeavor, there is only one Orthodox parish I would be able to go to and it's a GOARCH parish (this is where I'm attending now). Is that better than any other option (no church, Catholic church, Protestant church)?

I'm having a hard time in general with what may or may not be my conversion.

While I was in Roman Catholicism, I was in the same boat as you were, seeking a safe shore and a new Church, the True Church. I visited the ports of the Greek Orthodox Church under the Ecumenical Patriarch (EP) and discovered that they were seeking unity and having Vesperal Ecumenical services with Armenian, Indian, and Coptic Christians, Roman Catholics, Anglicans, Lutherans, Baptists, Evangelicals, and other Protestant denominations. When I visited those Orthodox parishes of the Antiochians, Serbians, and OCAers, I discovered the same thing. I honestly felt that I had found the True Church in the ROCOR, but in 2007, they joined the Moscow Patriarch (MP), who rules the Russian Orthodox Church. The Russian Orthodox Church is also into holding ecumenical Vesperal services, and also meeting with Jews, Muslims, and Buddhists as do the other World Orthodox.

For fifteen years, from 1995 to 2011, I drifted like wood among the various ports of World Orthodox and tried to justify my actions saying that all these World Orthodox Churches could not be that wrong, but I found that my spiritual life was not improving because Orthodox priests told me not to read the Philokalia and not to become holier than the EP or the Pope. Essays written by the EP and excerpts from books written by him bothered me. The EP is preaching the same "religion of love" as the Pope of Rome did in his latest January 6th professionally produced video. The latest January 2016 issue of The Word, published monthly by the Antiochians also preaches toleration and the "religion of love."

In addition, I was told to go to confession at least four times a year, when everyone else was offering their confessions, so that I only had about five minutes to mention my sins (just the major ones) and receive almost no admonitions or advice because of all the other people behind me. Pious yiayias told me that the priest was too busy to offer any advice during the week, and true to form, whenever I did have questions about my spiritual life, priests mentioned that they had catechumens to instruct, weddings to perform, people to console, funerals to serve, and that my attending Divine Liturgy and carefully listening to the sermons should supply my needs. So, I never did grow in Orthodoxy, but remained a teenager in my faith.

Ultimately, I found the True Orthodox Church, but the only parish near me is 7 to 8 hours away by car, or 2 hours away by plane. I visit them once a week or every two weeks by phone, and then once or twice a year by car. I also communicate with the priest and with some parishioners by email. Those avenues of communication really help. Plus, we have E Cafe. I am encouraged to read the Philokalia, the Homilies of St. Gregory Palamas, and other books, and to share my thoughts with my priest. I have grown in my faith, and have more peace. More importantly, my husband and I have grown closer together over the years.

Hope this helps.

[Matthew]

Hello Ainnir,
Please read the private message I sent you earlier today about this question you have posed. It has still not been opened.
In addition to what I said in that message consider the guidance of Scripture and the principles of Scripture about how the Lord deals with us. The Lord prefers us to be Hot or Cold, but the Lukewarm, Christ says he will vomit out of his mouth. In otherwords, even those who are stone cold towards Christ and the pursuit of Truth will be dealt with more leniently than the Lukewarm. Those will be utterly and sternly rejected by the Lord. If we were to go to a World Orthodox, or a Coptic, or a Roman Catholic church because we believed it to be the True Church, if Zeal for Truth motivated our choice, and let's say before God they were better but not perfect in the Faith, then for you it would be the next step and He would guide you later when you were ready into a more perfect understanding of Truth on the matter of the authentic remnant of the Apostolic Church. But if one has the attitude, "Well it is good enough", then we have really demonstrated we are not zealous for the Lord who said, "I AM the Way, the Truth, and the Life." And we have forgotten what is written in Apostle Paul's epistle to the Thessalonians, who said, "They were deceived because they received not the Love of the Truth." Not because they were not nice enough, or honest enough, or kind enough, or schooled enough in theology, but because they lacked an overpowering love for Truth with a Capital T. In that case, they will never see the light that would show them the need to leave what are essentially false shepherds who fall short of the Fullness of the True Church. Hope that helps.
Matthew

[Agios_Irineos]

Better is such an interesting word. Better for your soul? Better for you? Better in the eyes of God? I suppose we could argue this many ways. For instance, I could argue that is is better that you have had your eyes opened to Orhodoxy and now are closer to finding the true Church. Or I could argue that it will be easier to bring you into the True Orthodox Church than if you were an uninformed Protestant. But all that really misses the mark.

You have discovered Orthodoxy. Good for you! Now you must find the Church. You obviously have some understanding of the problems of the jurisdictions that call themselves orthodox that practice ecumenism. You have been inquisitive enough to find us here. Maria shared how she has handled the issue of distance.

Let us see how else we might help. What state are you in? What city if you don't mind sharing.

[Ainnir]

Maria, it does help, thank you for sharing your journey. It's especially reassuring that you and you husband are closer; mine is very dear to me. I would be absolutely aghast if someone had told me not to be holier than...well anyway save Christ. That's sort of...glass ceiling-y. Do they meet with these people in a show of hospitality and love, like Christ ate with sinners? Or do they meet as a way to show solidarity? The motive would matter to me. I think I'm closer than you to a TOC parish. I am in a town southwest of Atlanta, GA and I believe there is a parish in Albany, about 2 1/2 hours away according to this site: http://trueorthodoxdirectory.us/

My original question is sort of along the lines of exercise--perhaps a mundane analogy, but it will have to suffice. Some exercise is better than none, but there's obviously a lot of depth to proper exercise properly done. Yet anything is better than sitting around (although ignorance may lead to injury). And it's very difficult to imagine not going somewhere every week. I understand the responses, though, from a historical perspective. I didn't realize there had been an EO statement recognizing each other's sacraments. I thought the official line was "we don't know." Which was good enough for me at first.

I have recently heard the round table analogy regarding how EO sees other Christian confessions. We're all at the table, EO is at the center, and other Christian traditions are just closer to or farther from this center. I had a mixed reaction to this. At first I felt relief; I don't need to tell my Protestant family they are heretics and schismatics (because I just can't, and I don't think I should have to). But if this table theory is indeed true, what's the point of moving from one confession to any other? Is it a way to keep us in our own cultural and religious cocoons and just nod to each other over the tops of our Bibles...a "You're ok, we're ok, so let's just stay in our enclaves" sort of thing? I've learned enough church history to find that unlikely. So then my instinct was that if this table thing true, what's so special about EO? How is not just another flavor of the same thing? If it is, I'd have a lot easier time and more freedom and convenience going to the closest Baptist church. Except I've already been down that road.

Hopefully any of that made sense. I am rather frustrated and tired with the whole journey generally. I have wavered frequently between sticking it out with Orthodoxy, and completely apostatizing from all things Christian. But I'm not sure that's the fault of the parish; more a reflection of my current state.

[Agios_Irineos]

Aiinir,

You may be closer to a True Orthodox community than you think. The directory you cite is pretty outdated. I found this listing for a community in Atlanta:

https://www.facebook.com/AtlantaOrthodox/

They have another website here: http://www.sttheophan.org/

They are part of the synod of Met. Kallinikos.

As a side note, I am from Atlanta originally and visit the area every year. We would love to see new TOC missions grow up in the area!

[Matthew]

I had a mixed reaction to this. At first I felt relief; I don't need to tell my Protestant family they are heretics and schismatics (because I just can't, and I don't think I should have to).

Good point you bring up. When writing a post on this site which consists mainly of True Orthodox or when writing an article for an audience which generally accepts and understands the use of these terms, I feel those words can be used but I still try to exercise care in the manner of their use. But in my personal relationships, like you, I do not use that kind of language with others, such as Protestants or Catholics, that I meet or know (family, friends, etc). It is unnecessary and those words are often simply used or taken as an insult or name-calling word. So it would not be understood or taken in a constructive or beneficial way at all. It is usually pointless to use that kind of wording. I prefer "not apostolic" or "unbiblical" or something like that and I use it in reference not to people themselves but when describing specific ideas or doctrinal positions. Eventually once people are assured of your friendship and have begun to grasp the problems with certain doctrines that are not Orthodox, then one can eventually explain to them why these doctrinal differences found among heterdox are formally or academically what one could describe as a heresy. There is a short piece on the word "heresy" and the article sort of rehabilitates the word by taking out of the realm of insults into a more clinical dispassionate terminology.

See: The Use of the Term “Heretic”

It is worth saying a few words on the use of a term that unfortunately has acquired quite a pejorative reputation. Father Seraphim of Platina once wrote the following in a letter to a woman who was interested in becoming Orthodox but who was concerned about how some in the Orthodox Church (usually converts) related to those outside of Her, resorting even to offensive name-calling...

For short article (2 pages or so) go to: http://orthodoxinfo.com/inquirers/non-orthodox_app2.pdf

Another helpful article (also short, 2 pages or so) is:

What Is Heresy?

...This language may "turn off" some people, but it is only because they do not know what is meant by the terms "heretic" and "heresy" and the necessity for them. The explanation above is only partial; perhaps, a few more details will help us to understand why these words have been in the theological glossary of the Orthodox Church from the beginning. A "heretic" is simply one who maintains a "heretical doctrine." The sincerity and good will of the "heretic" is not in question...

For full article go to: http://orthodoxinfo.com/ecumenism/heresy.aspx