Modest versus Immodest clothing. What to wear to Church?

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Justice
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Re: Modest versus Immodest Clothing. What to Wear to Church?

Postby Justice » Wed 13 September 2017 12:35 pm

Maria wrote:What constitutes modest clothing in church or even that worn to stores and public places?

    Clothing that is respectful and clean, humble, and becoming of an Orthodox Christian.

    Clothing that does not reveal the body, such as low cut blouses, sleeveless blouses or muscle T-shirts, short skirts above the knees, or short shorts.

    Clothing that does not send a message: For example, a T-shirt with an advertisement, cartoon, or political message is not appropriate. Wearing rainbow colors is also not appropriate as that may show support of the Rainbow Coalition. Designer jeans with holes or slashes in the fabric are also not appropriate.

    Clothing that does not draw attention. For example, a Halloween costume worn to church in anticipation of the costume party afterwards.

    Clothing that is not extremely fitted to reveal the figure, and again, draw attention. For example. tights and leggings worn without a modest length skirt to cover them.

    Clothing that is not too bright. For example, a bright red dress on Holy Friday would stand out because most people would be wearing somber blues, browns, and blacks.

This is a list I would expect to find on an Orthodox website, unfortunately as said above, the World and some True Orthodox have been disturbed by these innovative practices. Even ROCOR-MP has giving into the new temptation. Men and women alike in ROCOR-MP have started to wear more secular clothing to church, but at least they have women wear the veil.

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Re: Modest versus Immodest clothing. What to wear to Church?

Postby Barbara » Wed 13 September 2017 7:18 pm

I can remember the days when men wore nice suits with ties and women dressed in pretty suits
Example that comes to mind is Boris and Galina Troyan, the keepers of the crypt where St John of SF was buried and which remains a shrine to him even after the translation of the Saint's relics upstairs to where it is now, a world - famous place of pilgrimage. The pair was always dressed up, showing respect for the Church and for St John.

This was a different generation of course. Those raised in somewhat of the old values of the Russian Empire. Not following sloppy American standards at all, but keeping to the timeless good taste in dressing up for Church.

I wonder what they are wearing now, then ? T-shirts even for men and women too ? Jeans on men ? God forbid.

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Re: Modest versus Immodest clothing. What to wear to Church?

Postby Justice » Wed 11 October 2017 2:34 am

I can tolerate if the men are wearing a jacket or coat over a T-shirt, though its not my preferred option obviously.

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Re: Modest versus Immodest clothing. What to wear to Church?

Postby Barbara » Wed 11 October 2017 3:42 am

Yes, bowing to the reality of the terrible taste in clothes of today in America, that is certainly better than wearing a t-shirt by itself.

I have said this somewhere else but I think no person, either man or woman, should EVER be seen in public in a t-shirt.
It is ugly beyond words and makes every last person look their worst.

Why is the name "t-shirt", anyway ? T for Trouble, in my opinion !

Why not find becoming clothes ? It seems that no one has any understanding of style but seeks to look dreadful as a rebellion. That itself explains the dying of hair ridiculous colors and in stripes, etc. Not to even mention the other manifestations of this bad spirit, like tattoos and such demonic things.

But to attend Church, especially a nice Orthodox Church, in a T-shirt ? Surely it is not a question of money but only of
interest in appearing neat and seemly why people would wear such a rag even partly hidden by a blazer.
Maybe the men don't even wear blazers or suit jackets anymore, but only leather jacket type attire, or casual outdoor jackets.

One would think this society is a Communist workers' 'paradise' the way the younger people dress in such a slovenly manner - and, tellingly, so uniformly.

No beautiful colors, either, but drab tans, greys, browns, blacks, maybe white is about the limit of the popular attire spectrum. No imagination, it all could be summed up, and no sense of one's dignity.

Perhaps there are not so many examples left of how to dress nicely because the older generation has gone on to the other world. Therefore, the flocks are on automatic pilot when they choose what to wear to Church, copying these odious contemporary standards.

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Re: Modest versus Immodest clothing. What to wear to Church?

Postby Justice » Wed 11 October 2017 3:47 am

Barbara wrote:Yes, bowing to the reality of the terrible taste in clothes of today in America, that is certainly better than wearing a t-shirt by itself.

I have said this somewhere else but I think no person, either man or woman, should EVER be seen in public in a T-shirt.
It is ugly beyond words and makes every last person look their worst.
Why not find becoming clothes ? It seems that no one has any understanding of style but seeks to look drab and dreadful as a rebellion. That itself explains the dying of hair ridiculous colors and in stripes, etc. Not to even mention the other manifestations of this bad spirit, like tattoos and such demonic things.

But to attend Church, especially a nice Orthodox Church, in a T-shirt ? Surely it is not a question of money but only of
interest in appearing neat and seemly why people would wear such a rag even partly hidden by a blazer.
Maybe the men don't even wear blazers or suit jackets anymore, but only leather jacket type attire, or casual outdoor jackets.

One would think this society is a Communist workers' 'paradise' the way the younger people dress in such a slovenly manner - and, tellingly, so uniformly.

No beautiful colors, either, but drab tans, greys, browns, blacks, maybe white is about the limit of the popular attire spectrum. No imagination, it all could be summed up, and no sense of one's dignity.

Perhaps there are not so many examples left of how to dress nicely because the older generation has gone on to the other world. Therefore, the flocks are on automatic pilot when they choose what to wear to Church, copying these odious contemporary standards.

France is a good example here, if you go out in a French town, it's amazingly formal. You won't see anyone in a T-shirt or even jeans for that matter. Wearing T-shirts out in my opinion is an American/Canadian thing that europeans implemented into their way of life. Only France seems not to have given into this informal lifestyle.

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Re: Modest versus Immodest clothing. What to wear to Church?

Postby Barbara » Wed 11 October 2017 4:22 am

You mean, imported into their way of life.
That is REALLY interesting ! GOOD for France, indeed ! When Americans complain about not being well treated by the French, I always say that the French have much to be proud of and don't like the way this country commandeered the central role in setting trends in nearly every field. Always, that had been France's prerogative ; the world copied the French. Now it's only limited to relatively unimportant areas such as designer clothes [ all terrible these days ], perfumes, etc.
It is fair that the French want people to speak their language when visiting their country. Why not ?
But the way American tourists groan about being 'slighted' by the French, one would think that Americans are the most 'entitled' people on the planet today ! They demand that all others cater to them : a classic symptom of narcissism.

So if the French are carving out this separate identity from 'the cousins', the british and the American-Canadians, all the better !
I like to see that independence from the "American Yoke" under which other Western nations - and much of the world in general - labor.

Even consider this idea : the French were a nation back in the time of ancient Rome ! We all remember "All Gaul is divided into 3 parts" - Gallia est omnis divisa in partes tres said by Julius Caesar.

However, the British Isles at that time were wild and thoroughly savage. The Caledonians in the north where Scotland is today were particularly fierce tribes, having to be subdued by the Roman Emperors.

Clearly the French were culturally FAR ahead of the British even 2,000 years ago.

Then, think about the food, speaking of going out to dinner in France. The French cuisine is on an incomparably higher level than the best that any English 'food' can offer.

The level of civilization is vastly higher up to this day. I see that as reflected in the more formal attire, indicating wholesome pride in nationhood and a healthy sense of self-respect. That last characteristic is sadly lacking in infant America : always casting about in search of identity which is absolutely missing here. Few Americans know who they are, nor can point to a great civilization to which they are heir. Technological achievements, however remarkable, do not fill that empty void.

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Re: Modest versus Immodest clothing. What to wear to Church?

Postby NotChrysostomYet » Wed 11 October 2017 8:13 pm

Barbara wrote:I can remember the days when men wore nice suits with ties

Ties and other excessive adornments should not be worn in Church, per St. John of San Francisco and others. Wearing ties in church is actually an American/Western tradition.


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