The Shin, The Dove, and the Holy Spirit

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Justice
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The Shin, The Dove, and the Holy Spirit

Postby Justice » Wed 6 December 2017 9:36 pm

NotChrysostomYet wrote:
Maria wrote:
NotChrysostomYet wrote:
How is the cross in the second image "repellent"? Countless Orthodox (even True Orthodox!) use a similarly shaped cross on various things, not only today but even as far back as the first few centuries of Christianity. A quick Google search will prove that to be true. Seeing a Christian criticize a simple cross like that is quite sad. Really Barbara, taking you seriously is rather difficult when you criticize things for no discernible reason other than a minimal association with groups you dislike.


I think Barbara is rightfully upset with all the horrific modern "art" produced by Roman Catholics today. Not only their churches, but also their "sacred" art lacks sacredness.

I have seen modernistic icons done by Vatican II New Order Catholics that are blasphemous. For example, Robert Lentz, O.F.M. has written icons of people who are not saints. See his icons of Christ. :ohvey: http://robertlentz.com/

The OCA New Skete, which converted from Novus Ordo Catholicism, has been infected with modernism too. For example, their "nuns" do not even wear a veil, and their chapel contains an icon of Francis of Assisi.

In general I would agree. However, in regards to that specific cross, that's just a basic two-bar cross that should not be criticized.

What about the shin? This wasn't a Christian symbol.
"The church is your hope, the church is your salvation, the church is your refuge." St. John Chrysostom

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Re: Modernism in the RCC & WO vs. Traditionalism in TOCs

Postby NotChrysostomYet » Wed 6 December 2017 9:55 pm

Justice wrote:
NotChrysostomYet wrote:
Maria wrote:
I think Barbara is rightfully upset with all the horrific modern "art" produced by Roman Catholics today. Not only their churches, but also their "sacred" art lacks sacredness.

I have seen modernistic icons done by Vatican II New Order Catholics that are blasphemous. For example, Robert Lentz, O.F.M. has written icons of people who are not saints. See his icons of Christ. :ohvey: http://robertlentz.com/

The OCA New Skete, which converted from Novus Ordo Catholicism, has been infected with modernism too. For example, their "nuns" do not even wear a veil, and their chapel contains an icon of Francis of Assisi.

In general I would agree. However, in regards to that specific cross, that's just a basic two-bar cross that should not be criticized.

What about the shin? This wasn't a Christian symbol.

I'm not sure what you're talking about. Are you talking about the dove? It's not my thing, personally, but there's nothing inherently wrong with it. But I was specifically referring to Barbra's criticism of the two-barred cross.

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Re: Modernism in the RCC & WO vs. Traditionalism in TOCs

Postby Justice » Thu 7 December 2017 12:20 am

NotChrysostomYet wrote:
Justice wrote:
NotChrysostomYet wrote:In general I would agree. However, in regards to that specific cross, that's just a basic two-bar cross that should not be criticized.

What about the shin? This wasn't a Christian symbol.

I'm not sure what you're talking about. Are you talking about the dove? It's not my thing, personally, but there's nothing inherently wrong with it. But I was specifically referring to Barbra's criticism of the two-barred cross.

I'm talking about the picture above the cross.

Image

The shin, unlike the cross, has never been used in Christian iconography.
"The church is your hope, the church is your salvation, the church is your refuge." St. John Chrysostom

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Re: Modernism in the RCC & WO vs. Traditionalism in TOCs

Postby NotChrysostomYet » Fri 8 December 2017 9:03 pm

Justice wrote:
NotChrysostomYet wrote:
Justice wrote:What about the shin? This wasn't a Christian symbol.

I'm not sure what you're talking about. Are you talking about the dove? It's not my thing, personally, but there's nothing inherently wrong with it. But I was specifically referring to Barbra's criticism of the two-barred cross.

I'm talking about the picture above the cross. The shin, unlike the cross, has never been used in Christian iconography.

A simple Google Images search for "Holy Spirit iconography" will prove you wrong. Yes, that is a more minimalist take and not my cup of tea, but to say that it has never been used in Christian iconography is a statement easily proven false.

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Re: Modernism in the RCC & WO vs. Traditionalism in TOCs

Postby Justice » Fri 8 December 2017 10:09 pm

NotChrysostomYet wrote:
Justice wrote:
NotChrysostomYet wrote:I'm not sure what you're talking about. Are you talking about the dove? It's not my thing, personally, but there's nothing inherently wrong with it. But I was specifically referring to Barbra's criticism of the two-barred cross.

I'm talking about the picture above the cross. The shin, unlike the cross, has never been used in Christian iconography.

A simple Google Images search for "Holy Spirit iconography" will prove you wrong. Yes, that is a more minimalist take and not my cup of tea, but to say that it has never been used in Christian iconography is a statement easily proven false.

I couldn’t find anything, even using your exact words.
"The church is your hope, the church is your salvation, the church is your refuge." St. John Chrysostom

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Re: Modernism in the RCC & WO vs. Traditionalism in TOCs

Postby NotChrysostomYet » Sat 9 December 2017 12:00 am

Justice wrote:
NotChrysostomYet wrote:
Justice wrote:I'm talking about the picture above the cross. The shin, unlike the cross, has never been used in Christian iconography.

A simple Google Images search for "Holy Spirit iconography" will prove you wrong. Yes, that is a more minimalist take and not my cup of tea, but to say that it has never been used in Christian iconography is a statement easily proven false.

I couldn’t find anything, even using your exact words.


Image

Image

Image

Image

There's plenty more where those came from (and all of these came from the "Holy Spirit iconography" Google Images search, for what it's worth). And there's even more than that if we want to include images where the dove is not in the descending angle.

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Re: Modernism in the RCC & WO vs. Traditionalism in TOCs

Postby Justice » Sat 9 December 2017 6:49 am

Where is the shin? I'm sorry but I don't see it on any of these icons.
"The church is your hope, the church is your salvation, the church is your refuge." St. John Chrysostom


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