Modernism in the RCC & WO vs. Traditionalism in TOCs

This is a safe harbor for inquirers and catechumen to ask questions and share their journey into Holy Orthodoxy. Please be kind to our newcomers and warmly welcome them.

Moderator: Maria

Mark Templet
Member
Posts: 154
Joined: Mon 6 August 2007 6:59 pm
Location: Abita Springs, LA

Re: Modernism in the RCC & WO vs. Traditionalism in TOCs

Postby Mark Templet » Thu 7 September 2017 4:58 pm

My friend, I am not sure that you have the complete information about this from the Orthodox perspective.

The Orthodox Church allows for divorce under circumstances of an adulterated marriage. If you read Chapter 19 of the Gospel of Matthew, you will see that Christ was questioned about this. He states in His answer, "And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for adultery,and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery."

It is clear that Christ is permitting a divorce if the marriage bed is adulterated. When a couple splits up, there is a spiritual trial. The result of which can be the granting of a divorce for one party in these circumstances. But just because you split up without the proper reason (adulteration) does not mean that you get to have a divorce much less remarry. If you were the one who committed adultery, and the divorce is granted against you, you will not be permitted to be remarried.

Obviously, we make every effort to prevent this from occurring, even if adultery is committed. But it does happen. If you were cheated on, willing to work it out but abandoned by your spouse, and you received the divorce in your favor, then the granting of a second future marriage is an condescension to our weakness. The second marriage service is not even the same as the first, it has a penitential theme to it, very different from a first marriage.

If you still feel that this is unwarranted, then you place yourself above the Holy Fathers of the Church, who you as a Roman Catholic venerate as saints as well, since they were long before the Great Schism. And if that is your judgement of yourself, then I cannot help you further.
Fr. Mark Templet
ROAC

User avatar
Justice
Sr Member
Posts: 668
Joined: Fri 5 May 2017 8:39 pm
Faith: Genuine Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Inquiring
Location: United States

Re: Modernism in the RCC & WO vs. Traditionalism in TOCs

Postby Justice » Sat 11 November 2017 12:26 am

An example of modernism in the Roman Catholic Church would be the Benedictine West Priory located in Vermont. This monastery has given into Vermonts liberal lifestyle. The monks in the monastery don't even wear traditional robes and have no tonsure. Not to mention the modernist worship service they have.
"The church is your hope, the church is your salvation, the church is your refuge." St. John Chrysostom

User avatar
Barbara
Protoposter
Posts: 3181
Joined: Sat 29 September 2012 10:03 pm

Re: Modernism in the RCC & WO vs. Traditionalism in TOCs

Postby Barbara » Mon 13 November 2017 3:46 am

Indeed, I was shocked to see the "brothers" all dressed in street clothes [ though warned by Justice to expect that ] and the same with the visiting "nun" from Catalonia, Sister Teresa Forcades from a St-Benet community of Montserrat, Catalonia, Spain. The priory bulletin describes her as a primary activist for Catalan independence from Spain. Hmm.
More interesting is her expertise on the subject of the pharmaceutical industry's excesses. But to see this nun-physician wearing a pullover sweater and black pants is highly unedifying. Sister Teresa, likely named for Spanish Saint Teresa of Avila, is also described as 'a theologian'. I hate to think what that might mean in the overall modernistic context.

The brothers write their title with a small 'b', as in brother Michael, etc. Hmm.

The hermitage itself looks plain on the outside : one would not even recognize it as a monastic institution. I did not see a Cross atop what must be the church building. Which reminds us that the priory is not even named for Our Lady, Saints, or even a popular one today to try to minimize gaps with the protestants, Holy Spirit. VERY STRANGE !

I glanced through a few places on the site.
Prominent on the priory's agenda is the quest for social justice / non-violence. I did not feel too happy about that.
However, I did glimpse a mention of participation in outreaches to Palestinians in order to understand the truth about their situation. That is refreshing to see that some Catholics today can see through the Vatican II propaganda in favor of the oppressors of the Palestinians.

I looked at the shopping area and found appallingly tacky modern designed jewelry for sale. Only doves - ugly whether vertical or horizontal [ ? ]

Image -

and crosses were offered. The crosses are awkwardly asymmetrical. They are the plainest type, rather than the traditional Crucifix. The styling of these is repellent, too :

Image

http://www.westonpriory.org/esales/pend_gs.html

Justice, I didn't see the part on the priory's website about the services. Probably it's better I didn't, as I might faint. This was already quite a strong dose of 50-years-after-Vatican II culture shock. I wonder whether this community is approved even by the Vat II Church ?

User avatar
Justice
Sr Member
Posts: 668
Joined: Fri 5 May 2017 8:39 pm
Faith: Genuine Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Inquiring
Location: United States

Re: Modernism in the RCC & WO vs. Traditionalism in TOCs

Postby Justice » Tue 5 December 2017 6:38 am

The 1893 World Parliament of Religions (sometimes called the World’s Congress of Religions) was convened in Chicago in connection with the World Fair of that year (1). The Parliament owed much to the efforts of its organizing president, John Henry Barrow. Barrow was a well-known Chicago lawyer as well as a Swedenborg minister. The Parliament was heavily weighed in favor of liberal Protestant denominations: the Unitarians, the Universalists, and the Congregationalists, along with two more conservative Protestant churches, the Presbyterians and the Baptists. The Roman Catholics were represented by the prominent Cardinal Gibbons.


This is slightly off topic, but didn't the Orthodox Church attend this parliament as well? I've seen the religious group photo and there is clearly and Orthodox priest in it. The Patriarch at the time (Patriarch Anthimus VII) does seem to be an ecumenist as he criticized Pope XIII's letter about unity between the east and the west. So then why was he sending delegates to this heretical meeting?
"The church is your hope, the church is your salvation, the church is your refuge." St. John Chrysostom

User avatar
NotChrysostomYet
Member
Posts: 111
Joined: Fri 15 September 2017 7:33 pm
Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America

Re: Modernism in the RCC & WO vs. Traditionalism in TOCs

Postby NotChrysostomYet » Tue 5 December 2017 10:31 pm

Barbara wrote:I looked at the shopping area and found appallingly tacky modern designed jewelry for sale. Only doves - ugly whether vertical or horizontal [ ? ]

Image -

and crosses were offered. The crosses are awkwardly asymmetrical. They are the plainest type, rather than the traditional Crucifix. The styling of these is repellent, too :

Image

http://www.westonpriory.org/esales/pend_gs.html


How is the cross in the second image "repellent"? Countless Orthodox (even True Orthodox!) use a similarly shaped cross on various things, not only today but even as far back as the first few centuries of Christianity. A quick Google search will prove that to be true. Seeing a Christian criticize a simple cross like that is quite sad. Really Barbara, taking you seriously is rather difficult when you criticize things for no discernible reason other than a minimal association with groups you dislike.

User avatar
Maria
Archon
Posts: 7429
Joined: Sat 12 June 2004 12:39 am
Faith: True Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: GOC
Location: USA

Re: Modernism in the RCC & WO vs. Traditionalism in TOCs

Postby Maria » Wed 6 December 2017 6:55 am

Maria wrote:A very good video that explains the effects of modernism in Roman Catholicism and in World Orthodoxy is posted below.

I beg you to take the hour to listen to this video produced at Holy Trinity Seminary in New York. It is well worth your time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bv1e_pG ... e=youtu.be

at 16:00 in the tape, he explains Dogmatic Theology and why it is important:

Our knowledge of Dogmatic Theology can be compared to the knowledge that engineers must have when constructing bridges. If their knowledge of engineering, physics, and calculus is deficient and if they are told to be quiet and agree to disagree, then they will build bridges that will collapse under the stress of high winds as did the Tacoma Narrows Bridge in Washington State.

In order to construct a solid bridge to Heaven, our bishops and clergy need a good foundation in Orthodox Dogmatic Theology, which includes the Holy Scripture, the writings of the Church Fathers, and all the Ecumenical and local councils. If modernism causes bishops to demean any portion of Orthodox Dogmatic Theology or to act "without prejudice to theological discussion" (as Pope Paul VI suggested), then they can make proclamations that will lead us to damnation, such as proclaiming that fasting and prayers are no longer essential, and that Pascha can be celebrated on the New Calendar, which does not comply with the decisions of the Holy Ecumenical Councils.

Modernism teaches that wearing the cassock and the facial hair are old-fashioned and antithetical to the modern way of life. Oh the contrary, wearing the cassock and not cutting the beard bear witness that humility and obedience to Christ's commandments are essential for salvation.

I could go on, but I urge you to take the time to listen to this excellent video, and to share your own thoughts on the matter.

Oh, he ends his presentation by presenting a picture of the miraculous 1925 Holy Cross over the skies of Athens on the Vigil of the Holy Cross (Old Calendar), Sept. 14/27, 1925.


It is very interesting how sedevacantist never bothered to answer this post.
Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me a sinner.

User avatar
Maria
Archon
Posts: 7429
Joined: Sat 12 June 2004 12:39 am
Faith: True Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: GOC
Location: USA

Re: Modernism in the RCC & WO vs. Traditionalism in TOCs

Postby Maria » Wed 6 December 2017 7:00 am

NotChrysostomYet wrote:
Barbara wrote:I looked at the shopping area and found appallingly tacky modern designed jewelry for sale. Only doves - ugly whether vertical or horizontal [ ? ]

Image -

and crosses were offered. The crosses are awkwardly asymmetrical. They are the plainest type, rather than the traditional Crucifix. The styling of these is repellent, too :

Image

http://www.westonpriory.org/esales/pend_gs.html


How is the cross in the second image "repellent"? Countless Orthodox (even True Orthodox!) use a similarly shaped cross on various things, not only today but even as far back as the first few centuries of Christianity. A quick Google search will prove that to be true. Seeing a Christian criticize a simple cross like that is quite sad. Really Barbara, taking you seriously is rather difficult when you criticize things for no discernible reason other than a minimal association with groups you dislike.


I think Barbara is rightfully upset with all the horrific modern "art" produced by Roman Catholics today. Not only their churches, but also their "sacred" art lacks sacredness.

I have seen modernistic icons done by Vatican II New Order Catholics that are blasphemous. For example, Robert Lentz, O.F.M. has written icons of people who are not saints. See his icons of Christ. :ohvey: http://robertlentz.com/

The OCA New Skete, which converted from Novus Ordo Catholicism, has been infected with modernism too. For example, their "nuns" do not even wear a veil, and their chapel contains an icon of Francis of Assisi.
Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me a sinner.


Return to “Inquiring into Orthodoxy”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests