Communism and the Jewish Question

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d9popov
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Communism and the Jewish Question

Post by d9popov »

Patriarch Bartholomew of Constantinople, Patriarch Kirill of Moscow, and Metropolitan/Patriarch Filaret of Kiev (Kyiv) are seeking to increase their worldly power. The U.S., Russia, Ukraine, and Turkey, likewise, are all seeking their own selfish political interests. None of these have the same interests. They all have competing interests. Most of their agendas are fairly open, so no one needs to resort to conspiracy theories about secret societies.

Cyprian recommends the world view of Sergei Nilus, who was an early editor of the forged Protocols of the Elders of Zion. The problem with this world view is that it mixes truth with falsehood and false prophecies. Nilus was correct in 1912 that a great, evil revolution was around the corner. The Marxists-Communists took over Russia in 1917, and then numerous other countries, and slaughtered and starved 80 million innocent people worldwide. Nilus, however, did not understand the way the world works. The Jewish communities, the Masonic communities, and Marxist movements are not identical. There has been some overlap in membership, but the groups are not the same. Many Jews were anti-Zionist and anti-communist. Capitalism, Communism, and fascism are not the same thing. Many of the "Johnnites" betrayed Saint John of Kronstadt and he did not approved of their behavior. Tsar Nicholas was searching for explanations of the growing revolutionary fervor, and then after the revolution, for explanations of what happened. The tsar knew that the Protocols were a forgery and he forbade its publication. Despite this, it was somehow published a year or two later. All of this is well documented. Saint John Maximovitch was correct: it was the Russian Orthodox people who were mostly at fault. Their love for the faith grew weaker and many of them gave in to socialist and Communist propaganda. Numerous ethnic groups in Russia: Russians, Ukrainians, Georgians, Baltic peoples, and some Jews contributed to the evil revolution and the mass murder and starvation that followed. No one ethnic group by itself or as a whole can be blamed. That is pure racism. That is ignorance. Nilus saw the revolution coming, but he was a false prophet on the details. The Protocols were, in part, plagiarism of plagiarism of (western) fiction and even (it is believe) of occult writings. No sober Orthodox Christian should believe this occult-influenced nonsense.

Today, the supporters of Bartholomew and Kirill are indirectly (but openly) admitting how much they worship their own group and how bigoted and racist they are against their chief rival group. Greeks and Ukrainians attack Russians. Russians attack Ukrainians and Greeks. Ukrainians and Greeks, who have conflicting interests, are using each other for political gain. Trump, Putin, Erdogan, and Poroshenko are all jockeying for influence. (Saudi Arabia conducts another assassination [Khashoggi], this time in Erdogan's backyard, and Erdogan uses it to maximum advantage on the world stage.)

Media coverage of the religious conflict has had numerous inaccuracies ("fake news") and Orthodox Christianity is subjected to disinformation and ridicule. It is a tragedy what has happened in the land of Vladimir the Great, the pagan ruler who repented and became an Orthodox Christian.

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Barbara
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Re: Communism and the Jewish Question

Post by Barbara »

d9, why did you put those underscore marks before and after the publication - to show it is controversial ? Or to say you don't believe in it ?

Regarding the faith of the Russian Orthodox people becoming weak, making them vulnerable to the professional propaganda campaigns staged by the revolutionaries [ this is, after all, only 2 days after the anniversary of 1917, that awful occasion ] - I always wanted to understand WHY this happened. Why did all those peasants who had formerly been so devout suddenly switch channels from the beautiful Orthodox chant to the glaring, dissonant jazz of Communism ? A few people, yes, but many hundreds of thousands ? I can't believe that so few fought or contributed to the poor White Army. That is appalling how they deserted all the former Russian ideals and plunged into this dark quicksand preached by the revolutionary movement.

Finally, what ARE the agenda goals in this situation of the 4 nations you mentioned, Turkey, the US, Russia, and Ukraine ?

By the way, I think it's great that Erdogan was so stern with Saudi Arabia : it's about time the Kingdom's rulers got a comeuppance. Especially this particular one, whose formerly rising star has sunk. Turkey and Saudi Arabia have almost nothing in common since the British launched their underhanded campaign to get the Arabian tribes to rebel against their Ottoman rulers, who had been allies of England only half a century before in the Crimean war.

How perfidious of Albion, as usual.

So Turkey, the varied people of which are heirs to layers of many ancient advanced civilizations, has the right to put the Bedouin nomad-descended Saudi rulers of Arabia in their place. This assumption of a leadership role by Ankara could be considered reasonable in that the Western powers are too beholden to Saudi Arabia for oil, so they tend to cringe. But Turkey, which gets much of its oil from Iran next door, has nothing to lose by giving the Saudis a dressing down in front of the world.

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Orthodox in Michigan
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Re: Communism and the Jewish Question

Post by Orthodox in Michigan »

d9popov wrote:

Patriarch Bartholomew of Constantinople, Patriarch Kirill of Moscow, and Metropolitan/Patriarch Filaret of Kiev (Kyiv) are seeking to increase their worldly power. The U.S., Russia, Ukraine, and Turkey, likewise, are all seeking their own selfish political interests. None of these have the same interests. They all have competing interests. Most of their agendas are fairly open, so no one needs to resort to conspiracy theories about secret societies.

Cyprian recommends the world view of Sergei Nilus, who was an early editor of the forged Protocols of the Elders of Zion. The problem with this world view is that it mixes truth with falsehood and false prophecies. Nilus was correct in 1912 that a great, evil revolution was around the corner. The Marxists-Communists took over Russia in 1917, and then numerous other countries, and slaughtered and starved 80 million innocent people worldwide. Nilus, however, did not understand the way the world works. The Jewish communities, the Masonic communities, and Marxist movements are not identical. There has been some overlap in membership, but the groups are not the same. Many Jews were anti-Zionist and anti-communist. Capitalism, Communism, and fascism are not the same thing. Many of the "Johnnites" betrayed Saint John of Kronstadt and he did not approved of their behavior. Tsar Nicholas was searching for explanations of the growing revolutionary fervor, and then after the revolution, for explanations of what happened. The tsar knew that the Protocols were a forgery and he forbade its publication. Despite this, it was somehow published a year or two later. All of this is well documented. Saint John Maximovitch was correct: it was the Russian Orthodox people who were mostly at fault. Their love for the faith grew weaker and many of them gave in to socialist and Communist propaganda. Numerous ethnic groups in Russia: Russians, Ukrainians, Georgians, Baltic peoples, and some Jews contributed to the evil revolution and the mass murder and starvation that followed. No one ethnic group by itself or as a whole can be blamed. That is pure racism. That is ignorance. Nilus saw the revolution coming, but he was a false prophet on the details. The Protocols were, in part, plagiarism of plagiarism of (western) fiction and even (it is believe) of occult writings. No sober Orthodox Christian should believe this occult-influenced nonsense.

Today, the supporters of Bartholomew and Kirill are indirectly (but openly) admitting how much they worship their own group and how bigoted and racist they are against their chief rival group. Greeks and Ukrainians attack Russians. Russians attack Ukrainians and Greeks. Ukrainians and Greeks, who have conflicting interests, are using each other for political gain. Trump, Putin, Erdogan, and Poroshenko are all jockeying for influence. (Saudi Arabia conducts another assassination [Khashoggi], this time in Erdogan's backyard, and Erdogan uses it to maximum advantage on the world stage.)

Media coverage of the religious conflict has had numerous inaccuracies ("fake news") and Orthodox Christianity is subjected to disinformation and ridicule. It is a tragedy what has happened in the land of Vladimir the Great, the pagan ruler who repented and became an Orthodox Christian.

Who invented communism? Here is a quote out of the writings of maurice samuel page 155 of you gentiles “we jews we are the destroyers nothing you can do will meet our demands and needs, we will forever destroy because we want a world of our own “ makes me wonder why St. John Chrysostom and others have warned us about them.

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Maria
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Re: Communism and the Jewish Question

Post by Maria »

I have moved this topic from Intra-TOC Polemics into Politics for obvious reasons.

Discussion of Turkey and Saudi Arabia is political. The Jewish Question is also political.

Encouraging Cyprian to discuss these political topics in Intra-TOC Polemics is entrapment.
If you do this again, Barbara, you will receive another warning.

In Christ,
Maria
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Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me a sinner.

d9popov
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Re: Communism and the Jewish Question

Post by d9popov »

Orthodox in Michigan wrote:

Who invented communism?

Who invented Communism? It certainly wasn't practicing Jews or even men who had apostatized from Judaism. Most Communist founders or leaders were not Jewish in an ethnic sense, either. Karl Marx was ethically German Jewish (with one grandparent being a rabbi), but religiously he was baptized German Lutheran (as was his assimilated father), and he became atheist. Engels was raised German Protestant by German Protestant parents and became atheist. Lenin's background was Russian Orthodox Christian, but ethnically mixed. Stalin's background was Georgian Orthodox Christian (an Orthodox seminary student no less). Trotsky (ethically Jewish) was secular and founded the Red Army: he was not a founder of Communism nor the party leader.

The most influential leaders of Communist states were Vladimir Lenin, Joseph Stalin, Mao Zedong, Kim Il-sung, Ho Chi Minh, Pol Pot, Josip Broz Tito, and Fidel Castro. None were Jews, or controlled by Jews, and the last six had virtually no connection to Jews at all. Stalin was rabidly antisemitic. Pol Pot was educated by Parisian gentile atheists, of French Roman Catholic ancestry.

IT IS A FACT THAT COMMUNIST IDEOLOGICAL LEADERS AND PARTY LEADERS CAME FROM VARIOUS RACIAL, ETHNIC, AND RELIGIOUS BACKGROUNDS. Numerically, the most common background of early supporters of Bolshevik revolution was "apostate Russian Orthodox."


ON THE CONNECTION BETWEEN ANTISEMITISM AND VIOLENCE AGAINST ORTHODOX CHRISTIANS

Modern antisemitism (irrational hatred and prejudice against Jews) is a modern western ideology, not supported by the Gospels or the sermons of Saint John Chrysostom. In that sense, modern (often fascist-inspired) antisemitic conspiracy theories are a form of Latinmindedness. Saint John Chrysostom did not believe, for example, that Jews were controlling Roman, Persian, and Germanic/barbarian governments, and manipulating them into wars. Theories that Jews control the economy and governments of the world (and start world wars) are undeniably modern, Western theories — not ancient or Orthodox. The most extreme antisemites in history, the German Nazis and the Croatian Ustashas, killed Jews and Slavic Orthodox Christians together, sometimes in the same death camps. Extreme, modern, Western antisemitism has led to the extermination of millions of Orthodox Christians and Jews, in Ukraine and other parts of Eastern Europe. That type of murderous antisemitism is historically inseparable from murderous anti-Orthodox-Christian hatred. Western antisemitic movements killed millions of Orthodox Christians, 1939 to 1945.

Facts do not support worldly conspiracy theories, such as: “the secret society” controls things; Zionists control so many things; the Ecumenical Patriarchate and the Moscow Patriarchate have the same political agenda; Clint Eastwood and others in Hollywood predict future events in their films and TV programs; moon landings were faked; the Earth does not revolve around the sun.; etc. Knowledgeable people will not want to be Orthodox if they are persuaded that those things are what Orthodox Christians believe. There are dozens of mainstream scholarly books about Zionism (like Mearsheimer and Walt’s famous book The Israel Lobby). Why not start with mainstream scholarly books that document open facts, rather than rely on obviously-forged documents like the Protocols of the Elders of Zion? There is a danger that people will believe the most inaccurate worldly books and ignore the books that document the open agendas and actual facts that anyone can verify. Clearly, the massive opposition to Trump’s plan to move the U.S. embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, shows that Zionists do not control everything. There are, in fact, numerous kinds of different Zionisms and debates and critiques about various kinds of Zionism. Communists often hated Zionists and Zionists often hated Communists. Scholars of Jewish background have written some of the best books on Communist genocides: see Steven Rosefielde, Red Holocaust.

Many of us have read Metropolitan Antonii Khrapovitskii’s Sermon Against the Pogroms, given after the pogrom in Kishinev (Chișinău). He was a compassionate Christian pastor. The Orthodox Christians in Belgrade saw the flourishing Serbian Jewish community disappear before their very eyes during the Nazi occupation — everyone knew it. These Serbian Jews were gassed, not in Auschwitz, but in the very city of Belgrade. At the Jasenovac death camp in Croatia, Orthodox Christians and Jews were murdered together by the Latin and Muslim fascists — and everyone knew it. Much of the Orthodox East suffered 400 years of Islamic tyranny, and Jews had nothing to do with causing the oppression. But there was an alliance between the Islamists and the fascists. Some Greeks, supporters of both the old and the new calendar, tried absolutely heroically to defend Greek Jews from deportation and death. Those Greek Jews, an integral part of Greek society, were sent to Auschwitz and gassed. Jews were the largest ethnic group in Thessalonica, more numerous than gentile Greeks in the city, and they never returned from Auschwitz. Read Raul Hilberg’s book on the Holocaust, which estimates 5.1 million Jews killed, 1939 to 1945. Hilburg also, to his credit, condemned sensationalizing or exploiting the Holocaust for gain today. During the Second World War, the Islamists and fascists were very close allies in a war against Orthodox Christian civilians and Jewish civilians. So, the lived experience of Orthodox Christianity knows that the truth is much more complex than some anti-Semitic conspiracy theories would have it. Holocaust denial shows ignorance of recent, verifiable Orthodox history. Orthodox Christians and Jews were frequently shot or gassed together by the Nazis, fascists, and collaborators. In fact they (Nazis, fascists, and collaborators) killed more Slavs and more Orthodox Christians than Jews during the Holocaust era. The point in that all these Christian victims, Jewish victims, and other victims were killed together by the extreme anti-Semite/anti-Slav/anti-Orthodox fascists. Solzhenitsyn wrote with much more nuance and Christian love than some do today on this topic, especially in Two Hundred Years Together. He also wrote without leftist “political correctness."

A key point in Nazi ideology was that Orthodox Ukraine, Belarus, and Russia (Orthodox in baptism, not in government) were to be invaded, millions of Slavic Orthodox people starved to death, and the remaining people permanently and eternally enslaved for the good of the non-Orthodox Germanic race. The actual, real result of that invasion was 20 million dead. In Belgrade they used mobile vans to gas people inside, in addition to the public hangings, and semi-public shootings. All well documented. Many eyewitnesses, Serbs and ROCOR people and others, escaped to the West and wrote accounts. Many Italian and German documents survived, including notes from the Wannsee conference, which planned the extermination camps in Eastern Europe. On Yugoslavia, read Stevan K. Pavlowitch’s book Hitler’s New Disorder, which is a broad summary of 1941 to 1945 in occupied Yugoslavia; even better, read Michael Lee's The Rape of Serbia. Non-Jewish and non-leftist American and British scholars admire Raul Hilberg’s book Destruction of the European Jews, and many think the true death figure is closer to 6 million than to his 5.1 million figure. The Holocaust, broadly defined, may be the most documented fact in world history. The people of Orthodox-majority Belarus were the hardest hit proportionately by the extermination effort. Several so-called concentration camps in Poland were outright extermination-only camps, and some did use gas, after Belgrade. What the fascists accomplished was mass extermination of millions of human beings, mostly European Christians, possibly more killed than by the communists. We must expose both of these totalitarian, genocidal, anti-Christian, anti-human, and anti-God evils: Communism and (antisemitic) Nazism/fascism. If we do not, then we will fail at half of our responsibility to tell the truth about totalitarianism’s murder of so many of God’s creatures, many or most of whom were Orthodox Christian, with the Slavic Orthodox peoples being the greatest victims numerically of both the European Marxist (mostly gentile) Left and the European fascist (mostly antisemitic) Right.

DOCUMENTATION

For documentation on Marxist genocides, see Steven Rosefielde, Red Holocaust.

For documentation on Nazi genocide (including the gasings in Belgrade) see: Christopher R. Browning, __ The Origins of the Final Solution: The Evolution of Nazi Jewish Policy, September 1939 – March 1942.__

For documentation on Roman Catholic and Croatian fascist genocide, see Michael Phayer, Pius XII, the Holocaust, and the Cold War.

For documentation on Islamist-fascist-Nazi collaboration, see David G. Dalin and John F. Rothmann, Icon of Evil: Hitler’s Mufti and the Rise of Radical Islam.

For documentation on Islamic oppression of non-Muslims, see Efraim Karsh, Islamic Imperialism.

For a scholarly critique of the Israel lobby, see John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt, The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy.

d9popov
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Re: Communism and the Jewish Question

Post by d9popov »

Barbara wrote:

d9, why did you put those underscore marks before and after the publication - to show it is controversial ? Or to say you don't believe in it ?

I do it simply to show that it is a book title that would normally be underlined or italicized.

d9popov
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Re: Communism and the Jewish Question

Post by d9popov »

In 1917, violent anarchist or socialist/communist revolution to destroy Christian monarchy and prevent Christian democracy was an OPEN AGENDA supported by thousands (maybe millions) of European people of numerous religious and ethnic backgrounds. Both the socialist/communist left and the national-socialist (Nazi, fascist) right had a particular hatred for Slavic Orthodox Christianity. Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, and Pavelić were similarly rabid in that hatred. The German Nazis and the Greek Communists were similarly brutal to the Greek Orthodox people. But, instead of these known facts, some individuals are tempted to explain everything with recourse to CONSPIRACY THEORIES about “the secret society” or “the Jewish Sanhedrin,” along the lines of the forged Protocols of the Elders of Zion. The _Protocols_was made famous by Sergei Nilus, a pious Orthodox Christian who either (1) did not know how the world (and politics, and economics, and revolution) works; or (2) did not care that the Protocols was false. He is on record telling a friend that he did not care if they were false; he liked the conspiracy theory even if false (!!!). We must remember that (factual) open agendas and (false) conspiracy theories are opposite to each other.
Wikipedia, November 19, 2018, under “Conspiracy theory,” gives an accurate definition: “A conspiracy theory is an explanation of an event or situation that invokes a conspiracy — generally one involving an illegal or harmful act supposedly carried out by government or other powerful actors — without credible evidence. ¶According to the political scientist Michael Barkun, conspiracy theories ... embody ... [the assumption that] nothing is as it seems .... [C]onspiracy theories evolve to incorporate [some <my addition>] evidence [that] exists against them, so that they become, as Barkun writes, a closed system that is unfalsifiable, and therefore ‘a matter of faith rather than proof.’ ” The key term is without "credible" evidence.
The assault of the Soviet Communists on the Orthodox Church was massive, with tens of thousands of clergy, monks, nuns, and church workers being shot dead, and murdered in other ways. How many millions of innocent civilians were killed under Lenin and Stalin? Scholars still debate the number, but it was many millions. Hitler was aware of the Marxist mass murder in Russia and of the Armenian genocide by the Turkish Muslims, and he set about to murder millions of Jews, Gypsies, and Slavs, in a larger genocide. The Croatian fascist leader Ante Pavelić, who was placed in power directly by Hitler and Mussolini, was rabidly anti-semitic and anti-Orthodox-Christian. Some of Pavelić’s “Ustashas” (Insurgents) shocked even the German SS in their hatred, torture, and murder of Orthodox Christians. The campaign of anti-semitic and anti-Orthodox-Christian extermination was so extreme that even the sometimes-brutal Italians (and even occasionally the Germans) stepped in to try to reduce the anti-Orthodox-Christian slaughter. The mass murder was a direct result of Pavelić’s theory that Jews controlled Marxists and Marxists controlled Orthodox Christians, hence they should all be slaughtered together.
We know that Sergei Nilus’s theories (and, as I said, he probably did not believe them himself) were false. There was an evil socialist revolution coming (that was an open agenda), but the Protocols does not help us understand the revolution that actually occurred.

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