Metropolitan Evloghios of Milan

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mmcxristidis
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Re: Metropolitan Evloghios of Milan

Postby mmcxristidis » Wed 16 March 2011 3:28 am

jgress wrote:Well, Minas, I think you have two choices now. You can apologize and ask forgiveness of Dcn Joseph for your slander, or you can be banned from the forum.

Oh wow, let me think.... Hmmmm, I really don't see why I should apologize, more like it should be the other way around I think. I haven't slandered Joe Mahmoud Suaiden as far as I can tell. If your referring to me mentioning the fact that he's not qualified to be a clergyman in the Orthodox church according to what the canons say as to who can be made clergy, then I'm correct. As far as me calling his synod vagante, well I believe it is, no matter how many long winded histories and explanations he puts forth. I suppose he could be called a deacon in a vagante synod, so OK, I will say he is a vagante deacon.
I guess this means I chose door number 2, no great loss to me at all. Did you think you could bend me over a table with this silly threat ? I notice this forum seems to have become Mr Suaiden turf, lock, stock and barrel as he is about the only one ever posting anything anymore so you both need each other to make you feel important more than I need either one of you. Thanks again for showing everyone how unbiased you all are, and do enjoy each others company. BTW, J Gress, when are you scheduled to make your appearance on NFTU radio ?

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Suaiden
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Re: Metropolitan Evloghios of Milan

Postby Suaiden » Wed 16 March 2011 3:42 am

May as well correct a couple of things.

mmcxristidis wrote: Oh wow, let me think.... Hmmmm, I really don't see why I should apologize, more like it should be the other way around I think. I haven't slandered Joe Mahmoud Suaiden as far as I can tell.


First off, without getting into a deep discussion of my name (it's not a middle name, it's a replaced *last* name from three generations ago), it's not "Mahmoud". It's "Mahomond". That's the first point. As in "Mahomond-Suaiden".
Second off, my dad wasn't Muslim. He was born, raised and died an agnostic who respected Orthodox priests a lot more than the Papist ones.
Third off, you introduced yourself as the dog to my wife saying you knew her husband. So you're lying.
Fourth off, you were never my "star reporter". I never even considered myself a "star reporter", since most of our stories come from other sources.

If your referring to me mentioning the fact that he's not qualified to be a clergyman in the Orthodox church according to what the canons say as to who can be made clergy, then I'm correct. As far as me calling his synod vagante, well I believe it is, no matter how many long winded histories and explanations he puts forth. I suppose he could be called a deacon in a vagante synod, so OK, I will say he is a vagante deacon.


I don't think you're really qualified to be an arbiter of how to apply the canons. And I certainly won't have a discussion on the Patristic boundaries of a Bishop applying economy or more about my personal life. I won't justify this discussion. You want to call me a vagante deacon? Fine. Go ahead. Call me Mr. Suaiden. I really don't care. You've been doing it for months now. And I just brush it off with all the other insults.

As I said, I don't enjoy the title. You're just helping demonstrate why.

I guess this means I chose door number 2, no great loss to me at all. Did you think you could bend me over a table with this silly threat ? I notice this forum seems to have become Mr Suaiden turf, lock, stock and barrel as he is about the only one ever posting anything anymore so you both need each other to make you feel important more than I need either one of you. Thanks again for showing everyone how unbiased you all are, and do enjoy each others company. BTW, J Gress, when are you scheduled to make your appearance on NFTU radio ?


I welcome guest speakers. Maybe I'll bring him on to discuss a Lenten recipe out of spite.
Deacon Joseph Suaiden and Family
St Eulalia Orthodox Mission (Autonomous Orthodox Metropolia of North and South America and the British Isles)
The Messaging System Here is occasionally spotty. Please send messages directly to my email: DCNJOSEPH AT ZOHO DOT COM

jgress
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Re: Metropolitan Evloghios of Milan

Postby jgress » Wed 16 March 2011 3:51 am

Well, I went ahead and did the deed and Minas won't be contributing to this discussion anymore. The reason of course is not his belief that Dcn Joseph is not canonically qualified for his rank, something which I really have no idea about and no care to discover, but because of his vicious personal attacks on Dcn Joseph's character, and not satisfied with that, on his wife. I'm glad Dcn Joseph resisted the temptation to respond in kind.

Mark Templet
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Re: Metropolitan Evloghios of Milan

Postby Mark Templet » Wed 16 March 2011 1:46 pm

Father Joseph,
Thank you very much for your honest answer to my previous question. And I appreciate your taking into account the nature of my having asked it.

Obviously, anyone could agree that such a vacillating position on these matters does and will create many problems. That said, do you think the Milan Synod as a whole will come out soon with a definitive statement on this issue? If so, would there be the willingness to depose any clergy that violated the norm?

The reason that I ask this is because many of the other True Orthodox jurisdictions see this lack of clarity as a stumbling block. For the sake of those in your synod who are truly striving for Orthodoxy, clarity would be divine. If you don't think this will come, could you discuss what the reasons might be and what it would take to reverse them.

Thank you, Father, for your calm, respectful, and understanding explanations and discussion.


Just a note to everyone who doesn't practice this, for consideration:[Warning: Personal Opinion Contained Herein] When I address any clergyman, be they RC, World Orthodox, etc., I always call them by their proper title. I will call a RC priest "Father" not because I think he has the grace of the priesthood (I know he doesn't); I do so because someone considers him to be a "Father." To address them otherwise doesn't bring about their desire to become True Orthodox, it causes them think we are vicious and/or crazy. When we treat people with dignity, we show Christian love. Yes, technically, a RC priest is not a real "Father," but why push that issue up front and cause someone to be scandalized and derail their possible intentions to become Orthodox in the future. I want other clergymen to remember meeting me with fondness, so that down the road when their conscience is bothering them about what they are doing they may call me and eventually become Orthodox. Likewise, if one of them refused to call me "Father," I would consider them to be very cruel.
Fr. Mark Templet
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Suaiden
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Re: Metropolitan Evloghios of Milan

Postby Suaiden » Thu 17 March 2011 1:21 am

Mark Templet wrote:Father Joseph,
Thank you very much for your honest answer to my previous question. And I appreciate your taking into account the nature of my having asked it.

Obviously, anyone could agree that such a vacillating position on these matters does and will create many problems. That said, do you think the Milan Synod as a whole will come out soon with a definitive statement on this issue? If so, would there be the willingness to depose any clergy that violated the norm?

The reason that I ask this is because many of the other True Orthodox jurisdictions see this lack of clarity as a stumbling block. For the sake of those in your synod who are truly striving for Orthodoxy, clarity would be divine. If you don't think this will come, could you discuss what the reasons might be and what it would take to reverse them.

Thank you, Father, for your calm, respectful, and understanding explanations and discussion.


Bless!

Well, that's I think what Ekklesiastikos was referring to as massive confusion. A week after the Tomos of autonomy was signed, it was announced that dialogue between the GOC of the Patristic Calendar (whose position on World Orthodoxy is crystal clear), our Sister Church under Metropolitan Anghelos, had decided to enter into discussions with a so-called "Catacomb Church" under Rafail Prokofiev, who styles himself "Metropolitan of Moscow". In an angry response directed at these discussions, it was revealed that certain Bishops of our Synod in Italy had entered into "fraternal relations" (read: dialogue) with the Moscow Patriarchate! (Our own new Metropolitan here was dumbfounded at the claim, having been in Italy just a week before, with nothing of the sort being mentioned.) It is now unclear what Italy's official position is, and whether they will enter into communion with Moscow.

There is a distinct possibility these dialogues, like a number of others, will collapse into a heap of rubble, leaving Milan's ecclesial status intact while further eroding her credibility. There is also the possibility, sadly, of a potential schism. One thing is clear, however: having spoken to my Metropolitan for years on the matter, he will not join with Moscow, save for a real repentance from ecumenism and Sergianism, et cetera.

All in all, we were given our autonomy almost providentially. No matter how sad the situation may be in Italy and Europe, we have a primary responsibility to maintaining our own Metropolia. All we can really do at this point, it seems, is watch.
Deacon Joseph Suaiden and Family
St Eulalia Orthodox Mission (Autonomous Orthodox Metropolia of North and South America and the British Isles)
The Messaging System Here is occasionally spotty. Please send messages directly to my email: DCNJOSEPH AT ZOHO DOT COM


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