Metropolitan Evloghios of Milan

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Hieromonk Ambrose
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Re: Metropolitan Evloghios of Milan

Post by Hieromonk Ambrose »

Ephrem wrote:

I've directed you to the Fathers, martyrs, confessors, scriptures, and all the holy Tradition which the Church preserves. If they cannot convert you, what hope do I have?

One thing you have not done is direct me to the Church of Christ and its life-givng Mysteries. Where must I go to be saved? What is the name of this Church? Where do I find it? Where does it worship on Sundays? What are the names of its bishops?

Speaking as an Orthodox Christian I am used to knowing, quite concretely, where the Church of Christ is and who its bishops are and at what address I may find them. You seem to be speaking of something quite nebulous and kind of invisible.

But... we continue to derail this thread. Could we take this discussion elsewhere?

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Re: Metropolitan Evloghios of Milan

Post by Suaidan »

Hieromonk Ambrose wrote:
Ephrem wrote:

I've directed you to the Fathers, martyrs, confessors, scriptures, and all the holy Tradition which the Church preserves. If they cannot convert you, what hope do I have?

One thing you have not done is direct me to the Church of Christ and its life-givng Mysteries. Where must I go to be saved? What is the name of this Church? Where do I find it? Where does it worship on Sundays? What are the names of its bishops?

Speaking as an Orthodox Christian I am used to knowing, quite concretely, where the Church of Christ is and who its bishops are and at what address I may find them. You seem to be speaking of something quite nebulous and kind of invisible.

But... we continue to derail this thread. Could we take this discussion elsewhere?

[Staretz Lavrenty said:] "In the last times they will banish the true Christians; then let the old and feeble at least grab onto a wheel and run after them.

Batiushka often repeated his talks about antichrist: "The time will come when they will petition for one king on earth. And people will be strictly registered. [The census takers] will come into the house, and the wife will begin to persuade her husband: 'Come, husband, let's sign up. After all, we have children, else we won't be able to buy anything for them.' And the husband will say: 'Dear wife, do as you please, but I am ready to die rather than sign up with Antichrist.' .... Such a moving picture of the future," concluded the elder.

"The time will come," said Fr. Lavrenty, "when they will renovate even the closed churches, and fix them up not only outside but also inside. They wilt gild the cupolas of both churches and belfries. But when this is finished, it will usher in the reign of antichrist. Pray that the Lord grant us an extension of time that we might strengthen ourselves, because a frightful time awaits us. Do you see bow craftily everything is being prepared? All the churches will be absolutely magnificent, as never before, but one must not go into those churches. Antichrist will be crowned like a king in a grand cathedral in Jerusalem, with the participation of the clergy and the Patriarch.

"There will be free access, both in and out of Jerusalem for everyone. But try not to go there then, because everything will be done in order to deceive.

"Antichrist will be born of a harlot--a Jewess from the twelfth tribe "of debauchery". While still a youth he will be very capable and smart, especially after he, as a boy of twelve, walking with his mother in the garden, meets Satan, who will come from the very depths and enter into him. The boy will shudder with fright, but Satan will say: 'Do not be afraid, I will help you.' And this boy will mature into Antichrist in human form. At his coronation, when the Symbol of Faith is read, be will not allow it to be read correctly; where the words describe Jesus Christ as the Son of God, he will renounce this and acknowledge only himself And then the Patriarch will exclaim that this is Antichrist, and for this he will be killed...

"The prophets Enoch and Elijah will come from heaven, and they, too, will explain to all the people and cry out: 'This is Antichrist, do not believe him.' And he will kill them, but they will resurrect and fly into heaven.

"Antichrist will be very knowledgeable in all manner of satanic cunning, and he will make false signs. The whole world will hear and see him. He will "stamp" all of "his people" with a mark. He will despise all Christians. There will begin the final persecution of the Christian soul which refuses the mark of Satan.

"Persecution will begin immediately on the soil of Jerusalem, and then everywhere in the world blood will be spilled for the name of our Redeemer Jesus Christ Many of you, my children, will live to this frightful time.

"The mark will be such that it will be immediately apparent whether a person has received it or not. The Christian will not be able to buy or sell anything. But do not despair. The Lord will not abandon His children. One mustn't fear!

"There will be churches, but Orthodox Christians must not go into them, because the Bloodless Sacrifice of Jesus Christ will not be offered there; instead, there will be satanic gatherings. And because of this lawlessness the earth will cease to bring forth fruit; from drought the land will crack, forming such crevices that a person could fall [into them].

They will kill Christians or banish them to desert places. The Jews will also be chased into one place. Some Jews, who truly lived according to Moses' law, will not accept the mark of Antichrist. They will wait and observe his deeds. They know that their ancestors did not recognize Christ as the Messiah, but here, God will grant their eyes to be opened and they will not accept the mark of Antichrist but will acknowledge Christ and will reign with Christ.

'But the entire feeble populace will go after Satan, and when the earth will produce no harvest people will come to him with the request to give them bread, but he will answer: 'The land does not give any grain. I can't do anything.'

"There will likewise be no water; all the rivers and lakes will dry up. This disaster will last for three and a half years. But for the sake of His chosen, the Lord will shorten those days. In those days there will still be strong warriors, Orthodox pillars, who will be under the powerful influence of the Jesus Prayer. The Lord will cover them with His almighty grace, and they will not see those false signs which will be prepared for all people.

"Again, I repeat, one mustn't go into those churches; they will be devoid of grace."

Fr Joseph Suaidan (Suaiden, same guy)

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Re: Metropolitan Evloghios of Milan

Post by JHunt777 »

Greetings Fr. Joseph!

I'm not here to discuss Milan, believe it or not. Neither did I just happen to sign on, believe it or not. I was wondering, though, if a new thread could be started with your last post on the subject of such prophecies as the one that you posted from Staretz Lavrenty of Chernigov. It would be interesting to discuss his prophecy more completely, and specifically in the context of prophecies from other Russian and Greek saints and elders concerning the future of Russian and the Last Days. In particular, what you provided stated:

"The time will come," said Fr. Lavrenty, "when they will renovate even the closed churches, and fix them up not only outside but also inside. They wilt gild the cupolas of both churches and belfries. But when this is finished, it will usher in the reign of antichrist. Pray that the Lord grant us an extension of time that we might strengthen ourselves, because a frightful time awaits us. Do you see bow craftily everything is being prepared? All the churches will be absolutely magnificent, as never before, but one must not go into those churches.

The rest of Staretz Lavrenty's words refer to the time of the Antichrist. He clearly says that the "official churches" that have been renovated and beautified, once this renovation and beautification is complete, will be "taken over" by the Antichrist, that the gatherings in these churches will be "satanic" and that they will be "devoid of grace". Unless I am misstaken, you provided this quote in application to the present-day MP, perhaps to suggest that this quote indicates the absence of grace in the present MP, or perhaps advocating that we have nothing to do with the MP precisely because all of these renovated and newly built churches will eventually belong to the Antichrist when he comes to reign.

While this is true, according to the prophecies I have read, that the "official churches" will likely be taken over by the Antichrist and be "devoid of grace" and "satanic", the Antichrist to my knowledge has not yet been crowned in Jerusalem, as Staretz Lavrenty states will occur. What about the official churches before the Antichrist. In particular, what do we make about the prophecies of the restoration of Orthodoxy in Russia and throughout the world, the crowning of a last Orthodox Tsar, a final flowering of Orthodoxy before the end? Those who have accepted this reunion of ROCOR and the MP have done so precisely because they see the fall of communism and the building of thousands of churches and hundreds of monasteries as the beginning of this renewal and resurrection. True, this restoration is not yet "complete" but is rather at its very beginning, according to this understanding. In the context of these prophecies concerning this restoration of Orthodoxy, then, I would be interested in the thoughts of you and others on how these prophecies might relate to what we see occurring today in Russia. If this is not the beginning of the restoration of Orthodoxy in Russia, how do you expect it to occur otherwise?

Here are a few prophecies concerning this restoration:

Starets Anatole the Younger of Optina, in the very first days of the Revolution, in February 1917, made a prophecy in the form of a vivid picture of the future of Russia: “There will be a storm. And the Russian ship will be smashed to pieces. But people can be saved even on splinters and fragments. And not everyone will perish. One must pray, everyone must repent and pray fervently. And what happens after a storm? ...There will be a calm.’ At this everyone said: ‘But there is no more ship, it is shattered to pieces; it has perished, everything has perished.’ ‘It is not so,’ said Batiushka. ‘A great miracle of God will be manifested. And all the splinters and fragments, by the will of God and His power, will come together and be united, and the ship will be rebuilt in its beauty and will go on its own way as foreordained by God. And this will be a miracle evident to everyone.” [Orthodox Russia, 1970, no. 1, p. 9].

Elder Barnabas of the Gethsemane Skete spoke before the Revolution of the disaster coming upon Russia and the cruel persecutions against the Orthodox Faith. He said: “Persecutions against the faith will constantly increase. There will be unheard-of grief and darkness, and almost all the churches will be closed. But when it will seem to people that it is impossible to endure any longer, then deliverance will come. There will be a flowering. Churches will even begin to be built. But this will be a flowering before the end” [private letter from N. Kieter].

Elder Nectarius of Optina in the 1920’s prophesied: “Russia will arise, and materially it will not be wealthy. But in spirit it will be wealthy, and in Optina there will yet be seven luminaries, seven pillars” [I.M. Kontzevich, Optina Monastery and its Epoch, Jordanville, 1973, p.538].

Archbishop Theophan of Poltava summed up in the 1930’s the prophecies which he had received from such elders as these: “You ask me about the near future and about the last times. I do not speak on my own, but give the revelation of the Elders: The coming of Antichrist draws nigh and is very near. The time separating us from him should be counted a matter of years and at most a matter of some decades. But before the coming of Antichrist Russia must yet be restored — to be sure, for a short time. And in Russia there must be a Tsar forechosen by the Lord Himself. He will be a man of burning faith, great mind and iron will. This much has been revealed about him. We shall await the fulfillment of what has been revealed. Judging by many signs it is drawing nigh, unless because of our sins the Lord God shall revoke, shall alter what has been promised. According to the witness of the word of God, this also happens” [The Orthodox Word, 1969, no. 4, p. 194].

My concern is that the prophecies pertaining to the reign of the Antichrist do not cause us to overlook the prophesied restoration of Orthodoxy which is to precede this time. In doing so, we could inadvertently "blaspheme the Holy Spirit" by attributing this work of restoring Orthodoxy to the Evil One rather than to God.

Interested in your thoughts on this.

In Christ,

Jason

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Re: Metropolitan Evloghios of Milan

Post by Suaidan »

JHunt777 wrote:

Greetings Fr. Joseph!

I'm not here to discuss Milan, believe it or not. Neither did I just happen to sign on, believe it or not.

Both parties signed on within minutes of each other. Considering we had argued on another thread months ago, I knew you were here before. :)

Be glad to talk about the Russian prophecies. Should probably be in a new thread though, so let's make a new one.

Fr Joseph Suaidan (Suaiden, same guy)

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Re: Metropolitan Evloghios of Milan

Post by Ekklisiastikos »

Shouldn't we start a new thread on the ecclesiological chaos of the Milan Synod or the one of the Aulona branch-sister synod..? We find interesting the reasoning that this happens because Milan Synod is a congregation of bishops with different backgrounds or should we say of different lineages, or better, of different worlds..!

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Re: Metropolitan Evloghios of Milan

Post by Suaidan »

Ekklisiastikos wrote:

Shouldn't we start a new thread on the ecclesiological chaos of the Milan Synod or the one of the Aulona branch-sister synod..? We find interesting the reasoning that this happens because Milan Synod is a congregation of bishops with different backgrounds or should we say of different lineages, or better, of different worlds..!

What would you like to discuss?

Fr Joseph Suaidan (Suaiden, same guy)

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Re: Metropolitan Evloghios of Milan

Post by mmcxristidis »

Ekklisiastikos wrote:

Shouldn't we start a new thread on the ecclesiological chaos of the Milan Synod or the one of the Aulona branch-sister synod..? We find interesting the reasoning that this happens because Milan Synod is a congregation of bishops with different backgrounds or should we say of different lineages, or better, of different worlds..!

Well Mr. Suaiden, it looks like your buddy Fr. Anastasios's friends, the Ekklisiasticos mafia don't respect your Milan group very highly at all, sounds like they may view it as some kind of alternate Orthodox bizarro world. Perhaps you could get them to come on your internet radio show to chew the fat, now that would be interesting, I may even tune in for that one myself. LOL

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