Metropolitan Evloghios of Milan

Information, news stories, and questions about True Traditionalist Orthodox Churches. This is the place to post encyclicals and any official public communications from True Orthodox jurisdictions.


Moderator: Mark Templet

Post Reply
jgress
Moderator
Posts: 1382
Joined: Thu 4 March 2010 1:06 pm
Jurisdiction: GOC/HOTCA

Metropolitan Evloghios of Milan

Post by jgress »

I've heard a rumor about Metropolitan Evloghios of Milan publishing some ecumenist-sounding encyclical. I know nothing about this, but someone asked me if anyone here knew about it, but no one has mentioned it. If anyone knows more, please say so.

User avatar
Suaidan
Sr Member
Posts: 685
Joined: Thu 8 April 2004 2:31 pm
Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Autonomous Metropolia of the Americas
Location: Northeast PA

Re: Metropolitan Evloghios of Milan

Post by Suaidan »

I see there's a lot of well-orchestrated discussion on email lists (not this one, thank God, my edit, sorry) by Fr Ambrose, as well as the implication that our Archdiocese is "covering up" this encyclical. I have shied away from comments on the matter because I gave an official statement, approved by my Archbishop, that this matter will be resolved officially-- and nothing more-- on OrthodoxWest. However, as the story spreads, I should probably devote a little time as to what precisely happened.

The background is very simply this: in 2005 a letter was apparently published in an official newsletter of the Synod advising the World Orthodox and the Monophysites that they cannot have some sort of "semi-communion", but would need to in fact resolve their differences and integrate. The letter was published in English. It described the union negotiations in a positive light. It was signed by and allegedly written by the Metropolitan (though there is a question of his actual authorship). Private discussions within the Synod revealed that the letter caused enough of a stir for the Metropolitan to receive angry phone calls at his residence from parishioners claiming he was an ecumenist, which he denied. Virtually all evidence of the letter vanished within a few months. The letter subsequently disappeared from any official channels of our Synod.

The letter was referenced by Gregory of Colorado in his condemnation of the Milan Synod in 2008. My own research into the Synod produced no copy of the letter. I could also not find it on any of our archived sites. Thus, responses from two of our clergy to Gregory of Colorado both assumed such a letter did not exist, and in fact I thought it was not even a real letter until last month. One of our clergy did find an Italian letter expressing similar thoughts from years ago. It is unclear as to whether this is in fact the Italian original, since it could not be located again.

Last month, Monks Ambrose (Mooney) and Aidan (Keller) of the Moscow Patriarchate (ROCOR-MP) publicly claimed that they had a 2005 letter to all the World Orthodox and the Monophysites, to which the "extremists in Milan" would have no answer. Assuming they were in fact bluffing, I and other clergy demanded they produced it. They produced it late last month and began to publicize it all over the Internet, including permanently uploading it to a number of servers.

Our first (and remaining) impression is that the content of the letter is patently heretical; however, now that the letter has been publicized for all to see, we were able to take the letter and have it dealt with officially. Since then, we have taken the position that this letter is now being dealt with and a response will be forthcoming. This was unsatisfactory to the two Moscow Patriarchate instigators in question, who both publicly expressed the desire for either a schism or public humiliation, which they are still working very hard to do, and have employed other members of the ROCOR-MP in their quest, as well as a couple of the usual World Orthodox instigators.

Finally, in frustration with the two troublemakers, Hierodeacon Augustine (a moderator on OrthodoxWest-- contrary to their claims, I am not, nor never have been, a moderator there) banned both of them for attacks on Archbishop John. This led Father Aidan to "justify" his quest to humiliate us with the document by claiming he has never attacked our Archbishop. I supported Fr Augustine's move.

Certainly this will alienate a number of people from our Church in the short-term. Off-record, my personal feeling is that we deserve what we are getting, since this wasn't resolved the first time. That said, I am confident this will be resolved, and in a way, this will help further enhance the standing of many in our Synod's desire to better enforce and apply the sacred canons and express True Orthodoxy. In a sense, I can't see a negative, since we have to look at the potential probabilities for departure.

1) Those who are strict in their confession of faith and unsatisfied in our Synod will join another True Orthodox jurisdiction, which is our responsibility, and which I hope will leave them more satisfied in spirit. I also hope the Synod's resolution will be satisfactory enough that they will still look upon us in friendship later.
2) Those who are strict in their confession of faith and will wait for the pending resolution of this matter will, God willing, be satisfied. Ironically, the biggest "extremists" Fr Ambrose and Aidan wanted to alienate compose the core of this group.
3) Those who are not strict in their confession of faith and angered with the "alleged rightward shift" of our Synod will use this as an excuse to leave for a more "canonical" bunch (read: World Orthodoxy somewhere), to which I say only "good riddance".
4) Those who are not strict and will wait for the resolution will, God willing, be further disappointed, and will either reconsider their position and learn in grace or follow #3.

As I see it in terms of probabilities, finally formally dealing with this at the episcopal level can only work in our favor. As to why it was never dealt with before, the answer is simple: many of us simply didn't know it existed and those who did simply thought it was retracted.

I hope that's helpful.

Fr Joseph Suaidan (Suaiden, same guy)

Hieromonk Ambrose
Newbie
Posts: 26
Joined: Sun 10 October 2010 1:13 am

Re: Metropolitan Evloghios of Milan

Post by Hieromonk Ambrose »

This Encyclical from His Holiness Evloghios is currently causing great distress within Milan.

It is entitled "A Fraternal Message to All Bishops of the Oriental and Byzantine Churches, which are All Members of the same Orthodox Church, the Church of Christ."

I have a copy but it is in .pdf format and I do not think it can be sent to the E-cafe as an attachment? If anybody would like a copy please make contact.


Two of the most active and theologically erudite clergymen in the Milan Synod, Deacon Joseph Suaiden and Hierodeacon Augustine (Fetter), have stated on the Milan e-list within the last week that the Encyclical is heretical.

Further, Hierodeacon Augustine has stated that he will no longer attend services where Met Evloghios is commemorated.

Hierodcn Augustine, who is the personal assistant of Archbishop John LoBue of New York, has also counselled Milan bishops and priests NOT to commemorate Met Evloghios.

I myself need to say how courageous it is for the rightly-confessing Deacon Joseph and Deacon Augustine to label the Encyclical as heretical.

I label as even more courageous and brave the decision of Dcn Augustine to refuse to attend services where Metropolitan Evloghios is commemorated and to advise Milan bishops and priests to stop commemorating the Metropolitan.

Let us pray that other rightly believing priests will come forward and support the two deacons in their confession of a true faith. Truth is so easily betrayed by silence.

Last edited by Hieromonk Ambrose on Sun 10 October 2010 11:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Hieromonk Ambrose
Newbie
Posts: 26
Joined: Sun 10 October 2010 1:13 am

Re: Metropolitan Evloghios of Milan

Post by Hieromonk Ambrose »

Here are the messages , taken from the Milan e-list, of these two courageous deacons.... the rejection of the Encyclical as heretical and the decision (by Hierodeacon Augustine) not to attend Liturgy where Metropolitan Evloghios is commemorated.

Hierodcn Augustine (Fetter):
Therefore, in all honesty, the letter by Metropolitan Evloghios is teaching an
erroneous and heretical view of the Church
, since it accepts the Monophysites
as Orthodox, without them anathematizing all the persons the councils anathematize,
and without them accepting all the canons and decrees of the councils
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OrthodoxW ... sage/20352

-oOo-

Dcn Joseph Suaiden:
Dear Father Augustine: Benedicite. Overall, I have no complaints about what
you wrote. It speaks the truth. I do have a question about the end however:
"Therefore, in all honesty, the letter by Metropolitan Evloghios is teaching
an erroneous and heretical view of the Church, since it accepts the
Monophysites as Orthodox, without them anathematizing all the persons the
councils anathematize, and without them accepting all the canons and decrees
of the councils. Did not Vladyka John himself tell the Metropolitan that
Syro-Jacobites were not Orthodox? That they were at least monothelites? "

I still don't have any confirmation that this was written by Metropolitan
Evloghios; Vladika John noted he saw a letter of this type that garnered a
lot of negative attention a while back. But let's first confirm who is the
author of the letter. The first reference I had ever seen to this letter was
in a condemnation of our Synod by Gregory of Colorado. Prudence behooves us
first to determine the authorship and circumstances under which it was
written.

That said, the content of the letter is worthy of every criticism you've
written in the response, whoever wrote it.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OrthodoxW ... sage/20353

-oOo-

Hierodcn Augustine (Fetter):
Now that we have proof of a document, and investigation underway, and until
this is resolved, I'd never go to a Liturgy in which Met. Evloghios name is
commemorated. Nor would any bishop or priest who knows what the situation is
commemorate him.
Draw your own conclusion about what that means in American
Archdiocese now.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OrthodoxW ... sage/20367

-oOo-

User avatar
Suaidan
Sr Member
Posts: 685
Joined: Thu 8 April 2004 2:31 pm
Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Autonomous Metropolia of the Americas
Location: Northeast PA

Re: Metropolitan Evloghios of Milan

Post by Suaidan »

Hieromonk Ambrose wrote:

This Encyclical from His Holiness Evloghios is currently causing great distress within Milan.
It is entitled "A Fraternal Message to All Bishops of the Oriental and Byzantine Churches, which are All Members of the same Orthodox Church, the Church of Christ."
I have a copy but it is in .pdf format and I do not think it can be sent to the E-cafe as an attachment? If anybody would like a copy please make contact.

As the old saying goes: speak of the devil, and he will appear. I am amazed at how quickly you've shown up and joined this list, just to continue your "crusade". Thank you for proving my point that your intentions are crystal clear.

As I said earlier in the post above, "Our first (and remaining) impression is that the content of the letter is patently heretical; however, now that the letter has been publicized for all to see, we were able to take the letter and have it dealt with officially. Since then, we have taken the position that this letter is now being dealt with and a response will be forthcoming. This was unsatisfactory to the two Moscow Patriarchate instigators in question, who both publicly expressed the desire for either a schism or public humiliation, which they are still working very hard to do, and have employed other members of the ROCOR-MP in their quest, as well as a couple of the usual World Orthodox instigators."

Hieromonk Ambrose wrote:

Two of the most active and theologically erudite clergymen in the Milan Synod, Deacon Joseph Suaiden and Hierodeacon Augustine (Fetter), have stated on the Milan e-list within the last week that the Encyclical is heretical.

The encyclical, by virtue of assumption that Oriental Orthodox are indeed so, is heretical-- the very same heresy proposed officially by your sister churches. So yes, the encyclical is. What is not clear is that these are reflective of the Metropolitan's beliefs. That's all I have to say.

Further, Hierodeacon Augustine has stated that he will no longer attend services where Met Evloghios is commemorated.

That matter has been resolved. We will not discuss how, no matter how much you'd like to see that happen.

Hierodcn Augustine, who is the personal assistant of Archbishop John LoBue of New York, has also counselled Milan bishops and priests NOT to commemorate Met Evloghios.

He has done no such thing. This is a false charge.

I myself need to say how courageous it is for the rightly-confessing Deacon Joseph and Deacon Augustine to label the Encyclical as heretical.

You should try it. After all, you've been in informal communion with the monophysites (which you call "the Ancient Church of the East") for a few years, and actively agitated for ROCOR to enter into full communion with World Orthodoxy, and therefore in communion with them. Unless, you don't believe the Encyclical is heretical.

I label as even more courageous and brave the decision of Dcn Augustine to refuse to attend services where Metropolitan Evloghios is commemorated and to advise Milan bishops and priests to stop commemorating the Metropolitan.
Let us pray that other rightly believing priests will come forward and support the two deacons in their confession of a true faith. Truth is so easily betrayed by silence.

You seem to have gotten so used to saying what you want with Fr Aidan on the Paradosis list that I know for a fact that with the above, you are lying through your teeth and I bet you don't even realize it. You have no idea what we're doing. And, considering your determination, my bet is that it annoys to no end both you and your student, Fr Aidan, that you can't seem to find out what's going on. Unfortunately, this message will give you no clue. It will be resolved internally. All I can tell you to do is to keep reading.

I should warn you that you might want to stick with bothering the Milan people, Fr Ambrose: you could get booted agitating for the Moscow Patriarchate like you have on email lists.

Fr Joseph Suaidan (Suaiden, same guy)

Hieromonk Ambrose
Newbie
Posts: 26
Joined: Sun 10 October 2010 1:13 am

Re: Metropolitan Evloghios of Milan

Post by Hieromonk Ambrose »

Suaiden wrote:

.....at I know for a fact that with the above, you are lying through your teeth.

This is a dreadful thing to say. If you examine my two messages above, what I have done is to relay and quite acurately, your own words and Fr Hierodeacon Augustine's words about the Encyclical. People need only click on the links I provided to your messages on OrthodoxWest to see that your words have been quoted correctly and without distortion.

...you are lying through your teeth.

You would do better to write in a spirit of peace and not react with such uncouth words, accusing me of "lying through your teeth." Bluster will not convince people. It will only hinder an intelligent discussion of the Encyclical.

User avatar
Suaidan
Sr Member
Posts: 685
Joined: Thu 8 April 2004 2:31 pm
Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Autonomous Metropolia of the Americas
Location: Northeast PA

Re: Metropolitan Evloghios of Milan

Post by Suaidan »

Hieromonk Ambrose wrote:
Suaiden wrote:

.....at I know for a fact that with the above, you are lying through your teeth.

This is a dreadful thing to say. If you examine my two messages above, what I have done is to relay and quite acurately, your own words and Fr Hierodeacon Augustine's words about the Encyclical. People need only click on the links I provided to your messages on OrthodoxWest to see that your words have been quoted correctly and without distortion.

...you are lying through your teeth.

You would do better to write in a spirit of peace and not react with such uncouth words, accusing me of "lying through your teeth." Bluster will not convince people. It will only hinder an intelligent discussion of the Encyclical.

Hieromonk Ambrose wrote:

This Encyclical from His Holiness Evloghios is currently causing great distress within Milan.

Hieromonk Ambrose wrote:

Hierodcn Augustine, who is the personal assistant of Archbishop John LoBue of New York, has also counselled Milan bishops and priests NOT to commemorate Met Evloghios....

I label as even more courageous and brave the decision of Dcn Augustine to refuse to attend services where Metropolitan Evloghios is commemorated and to advise Milan bishops and priests to stop commemorating the Metropolitan.

Let us pray that other rightly believing priests will come forward and support the two deacons in their confession of a true faith....

Besides the false claim that Fr Augustine is counselling Bishops and priests to stop commemorating the Metropolitan, you go further and claim that we are in some way starting some "movement" with our confession.

Further, you are mis-citing the list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OrthodoxW ... sage/20367

Father Augustine again reiterates something is being done, and enough is sufficient, and that he'd say no further: "Again, now that we have proof the matter is being dealt with." You continued on other lists as though he didn't already say it was being taken care of.

It's wrong to lie, Father.

And you are lying. And Father Aidan is helping you, which is even more depressing. It's evil. Stop doing evil stuff. I know that after you can get ROCOR people to join with the murderers of Christians in Russia, I guess this is small potatoes, but we have different standards here.

Fr Joseph Suaidan (Suaiden, same guy)

Post Reply