I see, and am taught, that ecumenism is a sin. That said, if the Church Abroad, the JP, or the Serbs commune with the Greeks or Antiochians, this is not ecumenism. I do not like the new calender any more than the others commenting on this forum, but the calender alone does not make them heretics or schismatics; they are Orthodox. I do believe that this is an error that will someday be fixed.
Does this mean that an entire juristiction is to be avoided because of the mistakes of a few? Just as I believe about the WCC; mere membership is not a sin, only bad behaviour, such as an Orthodox member promoting or not condemning the 'branch theory.' It is simple-minded to believe that membership alone in the WCC by an Orthodox promotes this.
Again, I do not like the way some juristicitions view the Fasts, receive converts, or how they have changed the calender, but this does not make them non-Orthodox or without grace.
I do not know how to respond to Latin Trad; that mindset is foreign to me as the Canons of the Orthodox Church do not apply to you.
Bogatyr, were you referring to the Church Abroad as a 'resistance' Church? If so, that is an error; we have never been 'in resistance' as other juristictions say they are. This topic was discussed at a conference sereral years ago; we are temporarily seperated from Moscow, hopefully for not much longer.
Old Calenderist
Moderator: Mark Templet
ecumenism, etc.
There is a certain standard of authority in the Orthodox Church outside of a feeling or an opinion. Let us begin as to why the calendar reform IS SCHISMATIC: 1). it was introduced by a robber synod without proper authority. 2). when introduced, it carried the anathema of Nicea for changing the paschalion. 3). It breaches the Eucharistic unity of the Church. 4). THREE COUNCILS OF JERUSALEM anathemize it. Illustrious ROCOR Heirarchs such as blessed +Metropolitan Antony have condemned it as such. In the Orthodox Church all of the above INDICATES SCHISM, a self-willed departure from the CANONICAL AUTHORITY OF THE CHURCH based in error. And authority in the Orthodox Church is based upon the Fathers, the Canons & the Phronema. Show us where it conforms to that. Show us.
NO, I have maintained that ROCOR now is not a "resistance church". That's why I gladly left. Haing been a member of ROCOR, baptized in Jordanville and a seminarian there, I know a little about my old jurisdiction. I haven't left that long ago. My formation was there, with my Spiritual Fathers being such people as Archimandrite Luke (Murianka) and Archimandrite Kiprian (Pyzhov). Let me say that if one reads the Sorrowful Epistles and familiarizes oneself with the LITERATURE, one will understand that ROCOR was once a "resistance church". The seminar people can't undo that.
Membership in the wcc is predicated on acknowledging the "disunion of God's church" and working toward its unity "through dialogue". Why BE A MEMBER OF SUCH A BODY WHO OPENLY PREACHES SUCH AN ECCLESIOLOGY IF one does not accept its premise. ROCOR from the outset HAS REJECTED THE wcc and its predecessor as EXACTLY ecclesiologically untenable, HERETICAL, on these grounds. St. Justin of Chelje DENOUNCED IT AS HERESY EXACTLY ON THESE GROUNDS. Who are the seminar people to contradict the Saint and right-believing Bishops?! Which Fathers and which Canons support their point of view?! SHOW US.
Orthodoxia I Thanatos!
Rostislav Mikhailovich Malleev-Pokrovsky
For anyone that can answer this:
Why would membership in the WCC not amount to apostasy?
Peronally, I think the moment you sign on you deny Christ. I have read through their website and what you basicaly have to agree to in order to be a member of the WCC, and it all leads to my above conclusion.
Not wanting this to sound snide or anything, but I really want to know why one would think membership in the WCC isn't a big no-no, and not make one a schismatic/heretic/anathema etc.
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OrthodoxyOrDeath
What would people think if I disclosed, after being on this board for numerous months, that I am a member of the Nazi party?
I have to fly a Nazi flag on my house but I don't participate in their public parades and for that reason my priest says everything is OK.
How does that sound?
There is a big difference between talking to the WCC and being a member. As Daniel says, membership is a denial of the Church and an admission of churches.
In addition, Jerusalem recognizes the "grace" of heretical churches and communes with them. This by itself is ecumenism.
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OrthodoxyOrDeath
I would like to ask who are these Heretical Churches and which Ecumenical Council condemned them?
The Ecumenist church of Bartholomew is one. And since he declared the Latin heresy to be part of the Church I suppose he has been condemned by numerous local and ecumenical councils - not that I think a council is nessesy to condemn someone a heretic before we can consider them as such.
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PFC Nektarios
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seraphim reeves
didnt mean to confuse you.
what I mean is that all the Orthodox Churches are in the WCC, since all the
Main stream Orthodoxy Churches are all apart of the WCC. I cant get away from it no matter what jurisidiction I join. So im going to join a Jurisdiciton which, the tradition and customs I am most confortable with.
I wont go join a Schismatic group just because they are not WCC.
Hope this helps with what I meant.
In Christ