Appeal for Unity - ROAC, RTOC

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Justice
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Re: Appeal for Unity - ROAC, RTOC

Post by Justice »

Have any hierarchs of these two churches called for unity since this document?

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Jean-Serge
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Re: Appeal for Unity - ROAC, RTOC

Post by Jean-Serge »

There was no progress on this unity topic and I doubt there will be any for the following reasons. The RTOC recruited 2 clerics formerly from ROAC who left ROAC without letter of release : Father Siluan and later Archimandrite Philaretos in Greece (that the RTOC elevated to bishop) . The current secretary of RTOC synod, father Victor Melehov was also deposed / sanctioned in the past by ROAC when he was a ROAC priest.

Finally, the RTOC should clarify some things about its cyprianist past:
- an interview of him shows he recognised the mysteries of the Moscow Patriarchate
https://www.roca.org/oa/volume-x/issue- ... catacombs/

Fr. Victor: Vladika, on one hand you do not recognize the Moscow Patriarchate; you did not become a member of the M.P., but, as I understand, you do not deny the sacraments of the Moscow Patriarchate. Your branch of the Catacomb Church does not rebaptize, it does not re-ordain priests.

Bishop Lazarus: This is not my Personal opinion; it is the position of those well-educated priests with whom [ associated. Fr. Vladimir Krivoliutsky belonged to a group led by Metropolitan Cyril of Kazan, a moderate. Fr. Sergius Tigrov was of like mind. They recognized the Mysteries [of the Moscow Patriarchate] because dogmatically there were no violations concerning the Orthodox teaching about the Holy Trinity, and the Mysteries were performed according to the rules of the office. True, they do not immerse, but after all, there were Periods in the Church’s history-in the time of Hieromartyr Cyprian, for example—-when the Church recognized baptism by sprinkling by virtue of necessity. Not because this was the only way: it should be performed by immersion, and we immerse. But this is not always possible. When I was moving about the country, sometimes there was no water, sometimes there was no suitable vessel, and yet I had to perform the baptism; it couldn’t be postponed. And so we would simply pour water over the head, in the name of the Holy Trinity. And we accept the Mystery of Chrismation as a lawful baptism.

We likewise do not deny their ordinations. Re-ordinations were performed only for renovationists, following the instructions of Patriarch Tikhon. And there were exceptions even here. If a renovationist bishop renounced his monastic vows, or if the bishop were married, the ordinations he performed were not considered canonical. But if he were an old bishop, that is, if the bishop performing the ordination were a monk who hadn’t renounced his vows, in that case Patriarch Tikhon accepted the ordination.

The Arians weren’t all rebaptized, the monophysites weren’t rebaptized; all that was required was that they renounce their heresy. The iconoclasts weren’t rebaptized… One can find many examples. Roman Catholics were and were not rebaptized, depending on the times and the local Church. Even in Russia there was no consistent policy with regard to receiving Roman Catholics: some patriarchs in the 17th century rebaptized, others did not. And masmuch as a final judgment on the Moscow Patriarchate has not been made, we consider that the grace of God has not left the people. After all, there are many pious people [within the Moscow Patriarchate], many good priests grieving, tormented. Not everyone knows of the Catacomb Church, and not everyone can emigrate; they are, after all, in bonds, in prison. For this reason, with respect to those living in the Soviet Union there are no such strict demands. Those in freedom, however, are of course to be faulted for belonging to the Moscow Patriarchate; with regard to them it’s an entirely different matter. But for those in bends there is a certain condescension. After all, not everyone is to blame; a long time has passed.

- as member of ROCOR, he spent 7 years in communin with the cyprianists

- there would be a petition made by RTOC in 2005, under Tikhon of Omsk to enter in communion with the cyprianists, as indicated by a Romanian bishop in this blog
https://manastireasfantulglicherie.ro/c ... spre-rtoc/

Susținătorii acestui grup afirmă că s-au despărțit de sinodul GOC din motivele comuniunii cu Sinodul în Rezistență condus de IPS Kiprian, lucru total fals, deoarece, în data de 23 decembrie 2005 (SV)/3 ianuarie 2006 (SN), episcopul Tihon trimite o scrisoare Sinodului în Rezistență prin care cere comuniunea cu acesta, dar răspunsul a fost unul negativ deoarece, printre alte motive, gruparea aceasta numită Tihonită (RTOC), nu botează prin afundare pe cei care au fost botezați prin stropire de către bisericile oficiale.

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Supporters of this group claim that they split from the GOC synod due to communion with the Synod in Resistance led by IPS Kiprian, which is totally false, because on December 23, 2005 (SV)/January 3, 2006 (SN), Bishop Tikhon sends a letter to the Synod in Resistance asking for communion with it, but the answer was negative because, among other reasons, this group called Tihonita (RTOC), does not baptize by immersion those who were baptized by sprinkling by the official churches.

Priidite, poklonimsja i pripadem ko Hristu.

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Barbara
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Re: Appeal for Unity - ROAC, RTOC

Post by Barbara »

Jean-Serge, Congratulations with the Feast of Ste Genevieve of Paris today !
Thank you for resurrecting this thread.
By any chance, do you happen to know for what reason or reasons WHY Fr Victor Melehov was deposed by ROAC ? What does sanctioned mean, by the way ?
I didn't know any of that.

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Jean-Serge
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Re: Appeal for Unity - ROAC, RTOC

Post by Jean-Serge »

According to this 2005 article from NFTU, they were trying to create a schism in ROAC and have an American candidate ordained for episcopacy.
https://nftu.net/three-american-priests-suspended/

His Eminence Metropolitan Valentine, First Hierarch of the Russian Orthodox (Autonomous) Church, by order of ukase #63, issued by him and dated July 13/26, 2005, has suspended three clerics in the USA from serving: the rector of Holy Resurrection Church in Worcester, MA, Archpriest Victor Melehov, the rector of St. John the Russian Church in Ipswich, MA, Archpriest Spyridon Schneider and another priest from the same parish Fr. Christopher Johnson. According to the ukase, the above mentioned clergymen were suspended “for violating church discipline, intrigue, refusing to commemorate their ruling bishop at divine services, spreading negative propaganda among their fellow clergy, and fomenting dissension at the Deposition of the Mantle Convent” in Suzdal.

 

Priidite, poklonimsja i pripadem ko Hristu.

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