Holy Mysteries

Discuss the holy Mysteries and the liturgical life of the Church such as the Hours, Vespers, Matins/Orthros, Typica, and the Divine Liturgy. All Forum Rules apply. No polemics. No heated discussions. No name-calling.
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NadirGP
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Holy Mysteries

Post by NadirGP »

Sacraments - Mysteries

The other day, my wife and I were discussing sacraments. I said: I wonder how the Orthodox Church defines the sacraments. Then concerning matrimony, who is the minister that makes the sacrament of matrimony a sacrament, the priest or the spouses themselves…?
Finally, in the Orthodox Church is it a common practice to baptise infants? In the positive, how is it performed?

Last edited by Maria on Sun 20 October 2013 12:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Correcting tags

So Jesus was saying to those Ιουδαιους [Judeans] who had believed Him, "If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free."
John 8:31-32

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Maria
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Re: Misteries

Post by Maria »

NadirGP wrote:

Sacraments - Mysteries

The other day, my wife and I were discussing sacraments. I said: I wonder how the Orthodox Church defines the sacraments. Then concerning matrimony, who is the minister that makes the sacrament of matrimony a sacrament, the priest or the spouses themselves…?
Finally, in the Orthodox Church is it a common practice to baptise infants? In the positive, how is it performed?

Very good questions!

I will only answer the first question (as was taught during my catechumen classes):

In Roman Catholicism, the couple confects the sacrament of Matrimony by pronouncing their vows and by consummating their union. In the Holy Mystery of Crowning, contrary to what the Roman Catholic Church teaches, it is God who unites the bride and groom in this Holy Mystery. As Christ has stated, "What God has united, let no man put asunder."

In the first three centuries of the Holy Apostolic and Catholic Church, when Rome was part of Holy Orthodoxy, the couple were united in Holy Matrimony with the blessing of the bishop by the reception of the Holy Eucharist, so indeed, Christ is the minister and the bestower of all blessings. With the rise of St. Constantine, the Church was legally empowered to wed couples. With a rise in mixed marriages, the Orthodox Church could no longer offer Holy Communion to a couple who were not both Orthodox Christians, so they were offered "the cup of blessing," which is blessed wine, but not the Holy Eucharist. However, whenever a couple are Orthodox Christians, then the Priest may give them the Holy Eucharist instead of the "cup of blessing."

Even though the Roman Catholic Church has the nuptial Mass where the couple is given the Holy Eucharist, that church teaches (cf. The Catechism of the Catholic Church) that it is the couple who confects Matrimony, while the Priest legally says, "I now pronounce you man and wife."

At the beginning of the Christian Era, there were no matrimonial vows and in the Orthodox Church, there are still no matrimonial vows. The vows are a Western invention, as the Roman Catholic Church saw the sacrament of Matrimony as a legal contract, "unto death do us part." In Holy Orthodoxy, the bride and groom are united forever. Our love is stronger than death, and we will recognize our spouse in heaven. Indeed, there is the teaching that the Mystery of Holy Crowning is martyrdom and a school of sanctity. The couple goes to heaven together in love or are damned together in hatred.

Thus, divorce is highly frowned upon, and a couple either considering a divorce and going through a divorce is usually forbidden from partaking in the Holy Eucharist. I say usually, because if a husband tries to kill his wife, and his wife is an innocent party, then she will not be punished or penanced, especially if this plan to kill her was conceived before their "marriage." This actually happened in Texas, where a medical doctor planned to kill his spouse after their wedding to inherit her property. The murder did not work as planned; his wife lived; and she was able to get a legal divorce and an ecclesiastical ruling that enabled her to marry someone else, while her previous husband was sentenced to prison for attempted murder.

Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me a sinner.

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NadirGP
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Re: Holy Mysteries

Post by NadirGP »

,
In the Holy Mystery of Crowning, contrary to what the Roman Catholic Church teaches, it is God who unites the bride and groom in this Holy Mystery.

Maria,
What is the “Holy Mystery of Crowning”?

Last edited by Maria on Sun 20 October 2013 2:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: fixing the quote

So Jesus was saying to those Ιουδαιους [Judeans] who had believed Him, "If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free."
John 8:31-32

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Re: Holy Mysteries

Post by arcmode »

Maria, you mentioned mixed marriages. I thought both people had to be baptized Christians, or is that just the world orthodox?

If there were mixed marriages under Emperor Constantine, why not today?

Do not be shocked by those who teach new doctrines but seem to be worthy of credence. Stand solidly like an anvil under blows. A good athlete suffers blows but wins. St Ignatius.

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Maria
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Re: Holy Mysteries

Post by Maria »

NadirGP wrote:

,
In the Holy Mystery of Crowning, contrary to what the Roman Catholic Church teaches, it is God who unites the bride and groom in this Holy Mystery.

Maria,
What is the “Holy Mystery of Crowning”?

In the Holy Mystery of Crowning, the couple is crowned either with a gold crown (Slavonic tradition) or a crown of flowers (Greek tradition) as the newly wed couple become king and queen of their family. If you have not been to an Orthodox Christian marriage, I would suggest that you attend one.

Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me a sinner.

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Re: Holy Mysteries

Post by Jean-Serge »

arcmode wrote:

Maria, you mentioned mixed marriages. I thought both people had to be baptized Christians, or is that just the world orthodox?

If there were mixed marriages under Emperor Constantine, why not today?

Well it depends on which marriages you are talking about. Under Roman law, the marriage being a civil contract, it was of course possible to have a civil marriage. But since being married at church implied communion of both, religious marriages were impossible because both had to be orthodox christians to commune. As far as I remember, it is in the 8th or 9th century when an emperor obliged all weddings to be conducted in church. This practically meant the end of civil wedding because only church weddings had a legal value. I think that at this moment, since the church was performing a purely secular function, it may have celebrated mixed marriages.

However, the canons are very clear about the prohibition of marriages ith nin christians, heretics, schismatics, well anyone outside the church. In Russia, under Peter the Great, they were allowed and in Greece it was the same but at the beginning of XIXth century but it is a violation of canons, of patristic teaching (cf Saint John Chrysostomus's commentary of Saint Paul).

See this link: http://www.roca.org/OA/89/89k.htm

Priidite, poklonimsja i pripadem ko Hristu.

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NadirGP
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Re: Holy Mysteries

Post by NadirGP »

NadirGP wrote:

Sacraments - Mysteries
[...]
Finally, in the Orthodox Church is it a common practice to baptise infants? In the positive, how is it performed?

Thank you for your answer to my first question.

Now can you answer to the above question, please?
Nadir

So Jesus was saying to those Ιουδαιους [Judeans] who had believed Him, "If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free."
John 8:31-32

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