Elder Isidore - Salt of the Earth

Chapter discussions and book or film reviews of Orthodox Christian and secular books that you have read and found helpful. All Forum Rules apply.
Post Reply
Matthew
Protoposter
Posts: 1812
Joined: Sat 21 January 2012 12:04 am

Re: Elder Isidore - Salt of the Earth

Post by Matthew »

Maria wrote:

People do change. What they do near the end of their lives is more important.

Did they repent? That is the key point.

Amen! How many saints lives do we have where they made far greater errors than sophianism for a few years in youth, such as murder, adultery, even killing a pregnant woman as one of the saints did merely because he was curious, but so great was their remorse and repentance that they were not only forgiven but achieved gifts and exceptionally great grace and intimacy with God.

User avatar
Barbara
Protoposter
Posts: 3983
Joined: Sat 29 September 2012 6:03 pm

Re: Elder Isidore - Salt of the Earth

Post by Barbara »

^ Really good point !

One can't be too exacting about beliefs at a young age. Anyone can make mistakes or not have proper guidance
and fall into some wrong beliefs.

From all reports, Pavel was an exceptional young man, and remarkable for his aesthetic spirit. This is obvious in
the way he wrote the book. THANK GOD he DID !

It would have been a great loss for the world to NOT know about this Elder. But also learn much from the way
the young Pavel observes even the tiniest details and renders them as poignant or comical.
But always interesting.

I am still getting over the superlative Raspberry Preserves which the Elder peeled cucumbers into !
If anyone remembers that story. It aggravated the giver of that gift, and I completely understood his being upset.

Matthew
Protoposter
Posts: 1812
Joined: Sat 21 January 2012 12:04 am

Re: Elder Isidore - Salt of the Earth

Post by Matthew »

Yes, I know how he feels, I have given a gift of very expensive wine once, and the fellow had a bottle of 5 dollar wine which was not quite finished. Solution? He poured the residue of the cheap swill in his glass and then poured the new expensive wine into the same glass. Forgive me, but I was shocked and I though, "casting pearls before swine." No discernment or appreciation of good wine. It was wasted on him, and likely so, whether or not he had mixed it with cheap stuff. I remember how hurt I felt.

User avatar
Barbara
Protoposter
Posts: 3983
Joined: Sat 29 September 2012 6:03 pm

Re: Elder Isidore - Salt of the Earth

Post by Barbara »

Yes ! Exactly ...
This event occurred when a Hieromonk from St Sava of Svenigorod [neat monastery] was visiting Trinty-St Sergius Monastery, Sergiev Posad.
Gethsemane Skete is a skete of that monastery. So the Elder came to see him.

"Just by chance" [ I believe, so that the truth could be revealed ! ], this Hieromonk decided to pay a visit to Elder Isidore the very next day.
It was merely an outing due to pleasant weather. And probably to continue spiritual conversation of the previous day at Sergiev Posad.

The Hieromonk FOUND HIS EYE directed to an obscure shelf at the Elder's. Lo and behold,
there was his 5 or 6 pound jar of the beautiful raspberry preserves half empty and with shredded cucumbers floating on the top of the remainder
[Probably worse, too, that never was reported out of charity, I assume !]

When he confronted Elder Isidore in disappointment, saying "I thought you had said clearly that you were going to keep these for the winter ahead",
the Elder brushed him off, changed the subject. Hmm...

I can think of a person like this, too. After that type of thing, I would never bestow any especially nice present on them again, for they would just
"trash" it and shrug. Maybe even enjoy my discomfiture....though the Elder was like a little child, not malicious-spirited like this person is.

Elder Isidore was kind in bestowing some of his preserves on other monks of his skete.
But this way of treating the remainder was truly bizarre.

Though extremely endearing overall, one other quirky action was his writing to either the Moscow Metropolitan or the Superior of the Lavra asking for him to send money to INDIA for food relief from the Sergiev Posad treasury ! One can imagine that hierarch's expression when he saw that.

Matthew
Protoposter
Posts: 1812
Joined: Sat 21 January 2012 12:04 am

Re: Elder Isidore - Salt of the Earth

Post by Matthew »

I think the best thing for me, at any rate, is not to try to figure that kind of thing out. I would just get a headache. Who can fathom or understand the mind of holy elders? I sure can't. I would just try not to think about it too much and just focus on what ministers grace.

User avatar
Barbara
Protoposter
Posts: 3983
Joined: Sat 29 September 2012 6:03 pm

Re: Elder Isidore - Salt of the Earth

Post by Barbara »

I was reading this thread over. All afresh, I feel bad for Icxypion, with that story he told just a few posts ago.
Where is he, by the way ? We miss his presence here.

I returned to this thread out of gratitude that I had been steered correctly about the elder Cleopa of Romania.
Thus, when I finally gritted my teeth and decided to have a look at that same book I mentioned 2 years ago,
I found myself rather indifferent at best. The stories about him may be powerful for Romanians.

For me, though, comparing the Optina Elders, whose biographies I love to read and reread, with him, I felt uncomfortable
with this 'elder'.

Now I wanted to find out exactly what was imparted to me about him before and I see that he was a New Calendarist.
Worse, he viewed Old Calendarists as schismatics.

This is one of the wonderful features of the Euphrosynos Cafe. One can look up a name immediately and get the facts about
that person or about any subject which has been examined here by the knowledgeable readers.

Now maybe we need to break off a thread for elder Cleopa by himself.
I would be curious to hear if anyone has learned anything new during the interim about him ?
My feeling was so negative that I didn't read much of the book and put it aside to give away somewhere.

It's clear elder Cleopa was an ascetic.
But what bothered me partly was the fact that the author makes a big deal over the fact that pilgrims would see the elder and receive different advice for the same question.

Fine, I thought. Let's see examples.
But the one given disappointed. The elder told 3/4 of his questioners the same exact thing : "Go to a doctor and find out exactly what is the problem with you".

Not very profound advice. Nor spiritual in the slightest ! Surely the village leader could have told the pilgrims as much ?
Why was elder Cleopa sanctioning Western medicine as seemingly the only solution ?

Besides not imagining an elder depending on a doctor particularly, the reader expects Cleopa to heal by his prayers the vast majority of his petitioners the way that St John Maximovitch did.
Quite a letdown after the spectacular cures of that Saint ! Bones could nearly ALL be broken in a fall from a second story window [this was in Belgium during St John's time as Ruling Bishop of Western Europe]. Yet St John would pray over the sick patient and miraculously, he would heal !

In contrast, Cleopa seems like what was said earlier, a pseudo- elder.
Of course, maybe I am missing something.

Anybody have any input gained from studies in the interim since this was last discussed ?

Post Reply