AN ORTHODOX VIEW OF HARRY POTTER

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AndyHolland
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Post by AndyHolland »

Ebor wrote:

Have you actually read any of the Harry Potter books to find out how "bigotry" is looked down on? "Muggle" just means a person with out magical ability, the real bigots are the people in both camps who hate the others: the Dursleys and the Malfoys for instance. One of the messages in the books is to not look down on or mistreat others because they are different.

I read enough of it, about 16 pages or so, to get the sense the muggle was indeed bigoted and akin to racism. Read the passages and insert "white" and the "N" word.

As for book burning I was thinking of "Farenheit 451" by Ray Bradbury as well as some of the depredations in Germany before WWII. The Bradbury is an excellent and thought provoking book. Here is an overview:
http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/451/summary.html

Ebor

Cervantes Don Quixote hits the mark - though it misses the windmill.

andy holland
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Ebor
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Location: Maryland

Post by Ebor »

AndyHolland wrote:
Ebor wrote:

Have you actually read any of the Harry Potter books to find out how "bigotry" is looked down on? "Muggle" just means a person with out magical ability, the real bigots are the people in both camps who hate the others: the Dursleys and the Malfoys for instance. One of the messages in the books is to not look down on or mistreat others because they are different.

I read enough of it, about 16 pages or so, to get the sense the muggle was indeed bigoted and akin to racism. Read the passages and insert "white" and the "N" word.

So do you not read "Huckberry Finn"? (A book that has a strong message of treating others as Human Beings, but set in the context of it's time for some language and attitudes of the characters.) Or maybe some of Shakespeare's plays such as "The Merchant of Venice" aren't to be read since they depict "bigotry" against the Jewish characters? (But then there's Shylock's speech:

"Hath not a Jew eyes? Hath not a Jew hands, organs
dimensions, senses, affections, passions; fed with
the same food, hurt with the same weapons, subject
to the same diseases, heal'd by the same means
warm'd and cool'd by the same winter and summer
as a Christian is? ...."

Powerful language and message there.

Perhaps in those 16 pages (and which book in the series was it, do you recall?) you read some of the bigotry directed by the Dursley's (a "normal" set of people) against those who did have the ability to use magic? If that's all you read then you do not know the book and you do not know how the main characters fight against cruelty and 'bigotry". Ah well. Read a few words and miss the whole story, I guess.

As for book burning I was thinking of "Farenheit 451" by Ray Bradbury as well as some of the depredations in Germany before WWII. The Bradbury is an excellent and thought provoking book. Here is an overview:
http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/451/summary.html

Cervantes Don Quixote hits the mark - though it misses the windmill.

You think the burning of Don's library a good thing. How sad. Have you read "Farenheit 451" by any chance? From the site I linked to:

"When Montag fails to show up for work, his fire chief, Beatty, pays a visit to his house. Beatty explains that it’s normal for a fireman to go through a phase of wondering what books have to offer, and he delivers a dizzying monologue explaining how books came to be banned in the first place. According to Beatty, special-interest groups and other “minorities” objected to books that offended them. Soon, books all began to look the same, as writers tried to avoid offending anybody. This was not enough, however, and society as a whole decided to simply burn books rather than permit conflicting opinions. "

I'm sorry, I will never come to any agreement with the idea that burning books is a good thing.

Ebor

AndyHolland
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Posts: 388
Joined: Tue 1 November 2005 5:43 pm

Post by AndyHolland »

Ebor wrote:
AndyHolland wrote:
Ebor wrote:

Have you actually read any of the Harry Potter books to find out how "bigotry" is looked down on? "Muggle" just means a person with out magical ability, the real bigots are the people in both camps who hate the others: the Dursleys and the Malfoys for instance. One of the messages in the books is to not look down on or mistreat others because they are different.

I read enough of it, about 16 pages or so, to get the sense the muggle was indeed bigoted and akin to racism. Read the passages and insert "white" and the "N" word.

So do you not read "Huckberry Finn"? (A book that has a strong message of treating others as Human Beings, but set in the context of it's time for some language and attitudes of the characters.) Or maybe some of Shakespeare's plays such as "The Merchant of Venice" aren't to be read since they depict "bigotry" against the Jewish characters? (But then there's Shylock's speech:

"Hath not a Jew eyes? Hath not a Jew hands, organs
dimensions, senses, affections, passions; fed with
the same food, hurt with the same weapons, subject
to the same diseases, heal'd by the same means
warm'd and cool'd by the same winter and summer
as a Christian is? ...."

Powerful language and message there.

Perhaps in those 16 pages (and which book in the series was it, do you recall?) you read some of the bigotry directed by the Dursley's (a "normal" set of people) against those who did have the ability to use magic? If that's all you read then you do not know the book and you do not know how the main characters fight against cruelty and 'bigotry". Ah well. Read a few words and miss the whole story, I guess.

I also saw the movie to get the scope. As my children had described and as the movie indicated, the point of the story was not the advancement of "muggles" - but rather the advancement of witchcraft.

The truth is also, when I was a young child I fell into witchcraft. Trust me, it is really, really, really, really, bad.

As for book burning I was thinking of "Farenheit 451" by Ray Bradbury as well as some of the depredations in Germany before WWII. The Bradbury is an excellent and thought provoking book. Here is an overview:
http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/451/summary.html

Cervantes Don Quixote hits the mark - though it misses the windmill.

You think the burning of Don's library a good thing. How sad. Have you read "Farenheit 451" by any chance? From the site I linked to:

"When Montag fails to show up for work, his fire chief, Beatty, pays a visit to his house. Beatty explains that it’s normal for a fireman to go through a phase of wondering what books have to offer, and he delivers a dizzying monologue explaining how books came to be banned in the first place. According to Beatty, special-interest groups and other “minorities” objected to books that offended them. Soon, books all began to look the same, as writers tried to avoid offending anybody. This was not enough, however, and society as a whole decided to simply burn books rather than permit conflicting opinions. "

I'm sorry, I will never come to any agreement with the idea that burning books is a good thing.

Ebor

Have you read Acts 19:19? Not all book burnings are bad. Acts 19:19 really happened.

Perhaps it was my experience with Witchcraft (the real thing) that made me immediately realize the poison of Potter and vomit it to the flames lest as a sinful dog I return to it!

andy holland
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AndyHolland
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Post by AndyHolland »

P.S. If technically, you own the book and burn it - who cares?

That is the differentiation between F451 and Acts 19:19.

andy holland
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Ebor
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Joined: Sat 30 October 2004 3:30 pm
Location: Maryland

Post by Ebor »

Yes, I have read Acts 19. I know what you are citing. I'm sorry that you had some kind of bad experience when you were younger. It has perhaps shaded your view on some books. No one is required to read things. But having not read something, one does not know what it contains in full. Such a one's opinions of the work are not likely to be taken seriously by others who have read it all the way.

AndyHolland wrote:

P.S. If technically, you own the book and burn it - who cares?

That is the differentiation between F451 and Acts 19:19.

If you own a book, feel free to burn it if you want, as long as you don't start a forest fire or set the building alight. :wink: But burning other people's books is a serious wrong.

In the case of Don Quixote, which you approved of, it is other people burning the Don's books and lying to him. It was not his choice but theirs.

There is a grave danger when a person or a group of people decide that they Know What is Best for Everyone(tm) and would destroy whatever they don't like or understand.

Ebor

AndyHolland
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Joined: Tue 1 November 2005 5:43 pm

Post by AndyHolland »

Ebor wrote:

In the case of Don Quixote, which you approved of, it is other people burning the Don's books and lying to him. It was not his choice but theirs.

There is a grave danger when a person or a group of people decide that they Know What is Best for Everyone(tm) and would destroy whatever they don't like or understand.

Ebor

I must quibble here with respect to Cervantes. If you come upon a serious medical quarentine position, you have to apply strong medicine and restrict rights. In Don Quixotes case, trying to destoy windmills, messing with sheep - he was destroying other people's property and causing a mess. The Inquisition, in love, applied an appropriate medicine for his diseased mind. Burning the books was good medicine.

The Bible comes down very hard on witches, wizards and the like. 'For without are dogs and sorcerers.' Our modern culture of dogs and sorcerers is here, and it is without Christ, the Church, the Truth.

It is diseased - and there is plenty of interesting good things to read - like the Church Fathers. :)

andy holland
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Ebor
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Joined: Sat 30 October 2004 3:30 pm
Location: Maryland

Post by Ebor »

And that is where we must continue to disagree. Human beings, being broken, do not always do things for others in love, but sometimes out of a conviction that they know best or out of a sense of power or pride or to hurt others or some other sin. Too many times someone in their own delusion of superiority decides that they know what is best for all.

If some group or your church decided that your books were deluding you and it was for the best they take them and burn them would you be able to accept that with the equanimity that you give to Don Quixote's library? Or is it OK for others rights to be taken away but not our own? Is a thing good or bad depending on whose ox is gored?

You read it as "love". I read it as "he's an embarassment and annoying. We have to destroy things that matter to him to stop him." I have seen too much Human sin to believe that destroying his books was just a matter "love".

This is not the section for another discussion of your ideas on society I think. I still see plenty of Christian behaviour and charity in it. And I see it coming from many places besides EO.

Thank you for your opinion. I will respectfully disagree.

Ebor

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