Symeon the New Theologian

[Philoteus]

Is Symeon the New Theologian considered a Church Father? What relevency does he have for the Orthodox Church?

[spiridon]

all i can say is that , isnt it a shame that the Asmatic Vespers are no longer seen or served...but it must have been costly for a cathedral of great size to do this asmatic vespers on a weekly basis...
if you arent familiar with this service it is an ancient service where the altar boys or akolites were allowed to fill the altar/Church with incense completely- to the point where no one could enter, that is until the incense had lifted up like prayer to GOD and then the Priests followed by the faithful could enter the church and start the services. this was done as moses and aaron did and in honor of the temple of solomon which was filled with the glory of God and the Priest couldnt go in until the cloud of Glory dissolved...
St.Symeon often wrote about this

[GOCTheophan]

Is Symeon the New Theologian considered a Church Father? What relevency does he have for the Orthodox Church?

Yes. And one of the greatest. Read Hieromonk Seraphim Rose's introduction to the Saints homelies on the First Created Man.

Theophan.

[Justin Kissel]

Symeon's a saint, one of only three to be given the title "theologian" by the Orthodox. Ironically I think he'd be accused of having been "corrupted by Protestants" had he lived today. Give him a read though and see what you think.

[Ebor]

Could you please expand on that a bit, Justin? It sounds interesting.

Thank you

Ebor

[Justin Kissel]

Ebor,

Well, I don't have any of my books by him anymore so I can't grab any quotes, but the topic I remember him being considered most controversial on were his words concerning the clergy/priesthood. Whether he was misunderstood or not I don't know, but at times he seems to be anti-clerical and putting forth a "do it yourself" mysticism. Also, though I haven't heard this mentioned much in secondary sources, it's pretty plain (to me anyway) from reading his writings that he has a certitude about salvation that most Orthodox would find "protestant". (Actually I have run across dozens of such examples in early Church history--a few of which I have mentioned on this forum over the years--where if the same thing were said today it would be considered "protestant"). In any event, back to the certitude issue. Symeon is very adamant that if you have the holy spirit, you will know it (ie. know it just as sure as you know that you have a hand). How many Orthodox Christians would claim that type of certitude? Wouldn't, rather, people dismiss someone like that is being delusional, prideful, and "corrupted" by "the west" or "protestantism"? Yet Symeon says that anyone who is Christian should have that feeling/experience, and that if you don't then you are not a Christian.

[joasia]

Justin,

You're view is simple-minded. And your interpretation of what St. Symeon wrote is your own. He was talking beyond the understanding most Orthodox Christians have nowadays(not that you are one anymore) - since most of us are far from living so close to God as he did and the other saints.

Also, though I haven't heard this mentioned much in secondary sources, it's pretty plain (to me anyway) from reading his writings that he has a certitude about salvation that most Orthodox would find "protestant".

What do you know about Orthodox views? His expressions of his faith was all Orthodox. There are no doubts, by "most Orthodox" that he exemplified the Orthodox faith. It's those pseudo-Orthodox or ex-Orthodox who would consider his views as "protestant".

Perhaps his expressions sound "protestant" because the protestants plagerize the Orthodox teachings and put a twist on it. Afterall, who came first, St. Symeon or the protestants? I think the former.

And since you have come across a few of the early Church fathers who have said similar things, then wouldn't that be considered more of an Orthodox view? But, please do give some examples, since you tend to ramble on with ambiguous comments and no solid substance.

Symeon is very adamant that if you have the holy spirit, you will know it (ie. know it just as sure as you know that you have a hand). How many Orthodox Christians would claim that type of certitude? Wouldn't, rather, people dismiss someone like that is being delusional, prideful, and "corrupted" by "the west" or "protestantism"? Yet Symeon says that anyone who is Christian should have that feeling/experience, and that if you don't then you are not a Christian.

St. Symeon was talking about the actual presence of the Life Giver that is the HOLY SPIRIT, moving within a person's soul and surrounding it, as did St. Seraphim of Sarov when he was talking with Motovilov.

What did he mean by being a Christian? He meant being in a state that one's heart and soul is touched by the movement of the Holy Spirit...yes, that sounds protestant, but they took that concept from the Holy Bible which expresses the true faith of Christ and they imagine it. The Orthodox saints lived in It.

Joanna