Where Did The 8th Ecumenical Council Go?

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jdigrande
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Where Did The 8th Ecumenical Council Go?

Post by jdigrande »

I am confused about the 8th Ecumenical Council. It took place in St. Contantinopolis is 879 and was presided over by St. Photius The Great one of the greatest Patriarchs of the Queen of Cities and a pillar of Orthodoxy as he is depicted on many ikons.

Other great Patriarchs/Archbishops of St. Constantinoplis (in no particular) include St. Gregory of Cyprus, St. Methodius, St. Jeremiah, St. John Chyrsotomos, St. Gregory the Theologian and St. Gennadius Scholarios.

In 1016 the heretical Latin Patriarch of Rome eliminated the 8th Ecumenical Council from its records and inserted the heretical (and banned) Filioque into the Creed of 325/381 in Rome. The Patriarchs of Rome had allowed the Filioque to be sung in his patriarchate from its introduction in Spain in 589 as an overreaction to the Arian heresy.

In the mid 15th century another one of the greatest Patriarchs of St. Constantinopolis was quoted as saying (in reference to the Council of Blacherae and Patriarch St. Gregory of Cyprus's Tomos):

"I receive with my whole heart the holy and great council that condemned the Latinizer Beccus, and firmly believe it to be ecumenical, since the absence of the West does not remove its ecumenicity... Note how the Council of Florence (1439 differs from that which met in Constantinople against Beccus (1285). The latter agrees completely with the faith of the ecumenical councils, both with the eighth (the union Council of Constantinople, 879)
and the rest, while Florence disagrees with them all, with both that one and the rest. In Constantinople, the patriarch of Alexandria was present, and the other patriarchs agreed with and approved of the result as a sound and lawful decision,"

Note how easily "with the eighth" (Ecumenical Council) rolled off his saintly tongue in the 15th Century.

This great saint also believed that the Council of Blachernae (1285) should be the 9th Council.

So what happened from the mid 15th century until 2018?

By whose authority was the 8th Ecumenical Council demoted to a minor, local council? It had 383 bishops there plus 5 Patriarchs or their legates present. Nicea had 318 bishops.

Was it some theologically and historically ignorant Tsar of Russia or the heretical Latin editing department of the publishing house in Padua or Venice who published The Rudder for us in the 17th century who demoted it?

Was it the Jesuit-led Theological Academy of the East in Kiev et all who excised the 8th Council?

Was it just the result of inertia, apathy and ignorance at the episcopal level over the last 500 years?

Where in The Rudder does it give permission to demote (or promote) councils which were deemed Ecumenical for hundreds of years.

Isn't anyone in our church afraid of the judgement of St. Photius The Great, St. Gregory Palamas, St. Gennadius Scholarios et al at the 2nd Coming on this issue? I am sure they are currently in lockstep with Christ and the Apostles (who will judge the nations).

If it is the 8th Council, doesn't The Rudder need to be amended?

Are there any services, ikons of St. Gennadius Scholarios or St. Gregory of Cyprus in our TOC churches. If not, why? If we have them, can I get a copy of the services if they are in Greek or English?

Has the entire works of St, Mark of Ephesus, St. Gregory of Cyprus and St. Gennadius Scholarios been published in Greek/Russian?

Is there any English translation of these works for a confused and monolingual dolt like me.

jdigrande
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Re: Where Did The 8th Ecumenical Council Go?

Post by jdigrande »

PS:

The quote referred to in my previous post was from St. Gennadius Scholarios in the 15th century.

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Barbara
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Re: Where Did The 8th Ecumenical Council Go?

Post by Barbara »

I thought I had read this post, but glancing again, I realized that I hadn't.

Very informative and thought-provoking. JDG, you are anything but a 'dolt'. You are very sharp and write so well. Thank you for your contributions here which have enriched the Forum.

I don't have any answers but maybe someone else will.

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Maria
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Re: Where Did The 8th Ecumenical Council Go?

Post by Maria »

The Orthodox Church has said that councils can only be declared to be infallible and Ecumenical if and only if the Church (Hierarchy, Clergy, and laity) declares it to be so.

We have Seven Holy Ecumenical Councils, not eight, not nine.

Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me a sinner.

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Maria
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Re: Where Did The 8th Ecumenical Council Go?

Post by Maria »

Since this topic can be contentious and involves the different views of TOC's, I am moving this topic into the Intra-TOC Polemic Private Discussion Forum.

Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me a sinner.

jdigrande
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Re: Where Did The 8th Ecumenical Council Go?

Post by jdigrande »

I am just asking what the other TOC's believe about this. I am not real interested in private views.

I listed the ecumenical views of St. Photius the Great, St. Mark of Ephesus and St. Gennadius Scholarius in that they represented all the saints between 879 and the 16th century (that there have been eight ecumenical councils.)

St. Photius signed the 8th Council in 879 when it was promulgated. He presided over it. It was seen by the Patriarchate of Rome to be the 8th Council until 1016 when it was eliminated totally.

If it was demoted by an Orthodox historical set of bishops, laity etc, then when did that happen?

This is an historical question. I am looking for an historical answer.

Justice
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Re: Where Did The 8th Ecumenical Council Go?

Post by Justice »

Maria wrote:

The Orthodox Church has said that councils can only be declared to be infallible and Ecumenical if and only if the Church (Hierarchy, Clergy, and laity) declares it to be so.

We have Seven Holy Ecumenical Councils, not eight, not nine.

The Avlona synod states that it accepts nine ecumenical councils.

We also recognize as Ecumenical the following Councils:

Eighth Ecumenical Council: 879-880 in Constantinople, by Basil the Macedonian, condemned the Heresies of the Filioque (and thus of Papism).
Ninth Ecumenical Council: 1341 in Constantinople, by Ioannis Kantakouzinos, condemned the rationalism of Barlaam the Calabrian (and thus, for a 2nd time, the Papism) and affirmed the theology of Hesychasm of St Gregory the Palamas.

Source: http://www.avlonasynodusa.com/ecclesiology/

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