Old Believers and the Holy Fire

DIscussion and News concerning Orthodox Churches in communion with those who have fallen into the heresies of Ecumenism, Renovationism, Sergianism, and Modernism, or those Traditional Orthodox Churches who are now involved with Name-Worshiping, or vagante jurisdictions. All Forum Rules apply. No polemics. No heated discussions. No name-calling.


Post Reply
User avatar
NotChrysostomYet
Member
Posts: 111
Joined: Fri 15 September 2017 3:33 pm
Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America

Old Believers and the Holy Fire

Post by NotChrysostomYet »

Found this interesting bit of information:

ON MIRACULOUS FIRE
Question: Why don't old-orthodox christians recognize the coming down of the miracolous fire?

Priest Gleb Bobkov:
For the reason that miracles are not proof of the truth. Lord sends miracles among different Christian shrines, including those who are heretics. I recommend you read the works of St. Maximus the Greek "The fact that the holy places never defiled so that they are at the mercy of the godless, though it lasted for many years." (Maxim the Greek. Creation. Holy Trinity St. Sergius Lavra. 1996. T. 3. p. 102). And specifically on this subject there is an opinion in his book "On the East. Travel Old Believer bishops' SI Bystrov.

Also sent to Jerusalem in the ancient times on behalf of the Russian tsar and the patriarch in the middle of the 17th century. Elder Arseny Sukhanov wrote: "The Greeks say that in ancient times on the eve of the Easter fire descended on the lamps in the temple of the Holy Sepulchre, but for a long time it does not."

This is described in his book "Proskinitariy".

There is grounded opinion that patriarch of Jerusalem and of the Armenian Church archimandrite light candles from the undying lamp located in the Holy Sepulcher. I would refer you to the book of memoirs of Bishop of Synod of the Russian Church of the Assumption of porphyria (Porphyry (Assumption) being my book SPB 1896 t. 3. p. 299).

s. Ruvera

In Russian:

Христос Воскресе! Дорогой батюшка, пожалуйста, разъясните, почему древлеправославные христиане не признают сошествия благодатного огня?
Воистину воскресе!
По той причине, что чудеса не являются подтверждением истины. Господь посылает чудеса у разных христианских святынь, в том числе и у тех, которые находятся у еретиков. Рекомендую Вам почитать творение святого Максима Грека «О том, что святые места никогда не оскверняются тем, что находятся во власти безбожников, хотя бы это продолжалось много лет». (Максим Грек. Творения. Свято-Троицкая Сергиева лавра. 1996. Т. 3. Стр. 102). А конкретно на эту тему есть мнение в книге «По Востоку. Путешествие старообрядческих епископов» С.И. Быстрова.

Также бывший в Иеросалиме по поручению русских царя и патриарха в середине 17 в. старец Арсений Суханов писал:
Греки рассказывают, что в древности накануне Пасхи сходил огонь на лампады в храме гроба Господня, но уже давно этого не происходит.
Это описано в его книге «Проскинитарий».

Есть небезосновательное мнение, что Иеросалимский патриарх и архимандрит армянской церкви зажигают свечи от неугасимой лампады, находящейся в гробе Господнем. Отошлю Вас к книге мемуаров епископа Синодальной Российской Церкви Порфирия Успенского (Порфирий (Успенский) Книга бытия моего СПБ 1896 т. 3. Стр. 299).

User avatar
Barbara
Protoposter
Posts: 3983
Joined: Sat 29 September 2012 6:03 pm

Re: Old Believers and the Holy Fire

Post by Barbara »

That is indeed interesting, NCYet. I had no idea about that.
Thanks for digging that up.

I enjoyed hearing mention of Fr Arseny Sukhanov. This clergyman was dispatched by * Patriarch Nikon * - a fact which you avoided naming !

His mission was to collect as many manuscripts as possible to bring back to Russia and also to procure a plan of the holy sites of Palestine. From this latter information, Patriarch Nikon had the New Jerusalem Monastery's buildings designed. For example, the Golgotha area of the grand Cathedral of the Resurrection was patterned after the Holy Land's Golgotha.

And by the way, the great monastery complex near what was renamed the Jordan River near Istra, outside Moscow,
was not originally given the name New Jerusalem by Nikon. That was Tsar Alexey Mikhailovich's doing. When the Tsar saw the site, he exclaimed that it resembled the New Jerusalem. In deference to the Tsar's urging, Nikon agreed to have the monastery named that. Its official name was Monastery of the Resurrection.

Post Reply