Glorification of José Munoz by the ROCOR-MP?

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Maria
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Re: Glorification of José Munoz by the ROCOR-MP?

Post by Maria »

Father Seraphim Rose of blessed memory did write against the Soviet Regime, publishing a huge volume on the Catacomb Saints of Russia, so frankly, I would be surprised if he were glorified by the ROCOR-MP.

On the other hand, José Munoz, was a saintly person who tried to reach all and to impart his devotion to the Most Holy Theotokos. I attended one or perhaps two of his presentations at the ROCOR Church in the very steep Hollywood hills of Southern California. He tried not to be political, knowing that the MP agents of the KGB were operating in the ROCOR and were very close to achieving their desired ROCOR union with the MP, but ultimately, he was most likely murdered by a KGB agent or with the help of the KGB.

Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me a sinner.

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Barbara
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Re: Glorification of José Munoz by the ROCOR-MP?

Post by Barbara »

Yes, that latter is why I felt quite shocked that the MP would be promoting Brother Jose.
It seems hypocritical, assuming that this suspicion is true.
One can not imagine any other culprit or any other motivation except to dim the light of Rocor. That Icon brought a lot of happiness, consolation and wholesome pride amongst the flock.
Thus, one feels that an envious MP could not sit by and let this glowing publicity come to its avowed enemy, the Russian Church Outside of Russia. After all, the MP at that time did not have any well-known myrrhstreaming icons, let alone traveling ones. In past years, there has been the Softener of Evil Hearts Icon which does travel frequently abroad.

However, since Brother Jose was non-political [ assuming that means non-Anti-MP at least outwardly ], that would make it easier for the MP to take up his cause.

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NotChrysostomYet
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Re: Glorification of José Munoz by the ROCOR-MP?

Post by NotChrysostomYet »

Barbara wrote:

Yes, that latter is why I felt quite shocked that the MP would be promoting Brother Jose.
It seems hypocritical, assuming that this suspicion is true.
One can not imagine any other culprit or any other motivation except to dim the light of Rocor. That Icon brought a lot of happiness, consolation and wholesome pride amongst the flock.
Thus, one feels that an envious MP could not sit by and let this glowing publicity come to its avowed enemy, the Russian Church Outside of Russia. After all, the MP at that time did not have any well-known myrrhstreaming icons, let alone traveling ones. In past years, there has been the Softener of Evil Hearts Icon which does travel frequently abroad.

However, since Brother Jose was non-political [ assuming that means non-Anti-MP at least outwardly ], that would make it easier for the MP to take up his cause.

This may comes as a shock to you, but not everything is a conspiracy.

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Barbara
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Re: Glorification of José Munoz by the ROCOR-MP?

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Do you have a better theory of what actually happened ? Please feel free to advance that explanation.
A fair number of observers do feel that 'the usual suspects' were to blame.

This essay by bp. Andrei [Erastov] of Yarraville [ Australia ] is flawed due to a strange assertion here :

"It is not an exaggeration to say that the only spiritual authority respected by anyone in the ROCA, was the humble Brother Joseph Munoz, who tried to remain inconspicuous.

"If Brother Joseph could be persuaded to join the side of those for union, that would be a decisive victory, but if the opposite occurred, and he would oppose union with the MP, it simply would not have happened."

That contention that everything hinged on Brother Jose's opinion regarding the Mp-Rocor merger is nothing short of bizarre. Further, there were plenty of seasoned and respected anti-MP Rocor clergymen.

Still, this breakaway faction Bishop holds the same belief, backing it up with the following anecdote which is unique in that it provides detail of a purported sinister encounter :

"It can be assumed that the KGB was monitoring Brother Joseph, learning his character and his weak points. He was stopped one time on a street in Paris by someone who showed his KGB identity card. He told Brother Joseph, “You are a bother to us. You understand? You bother us.” (One of Brother Joseph’s friends related this story.) It is possible that there were other attempts to frighten him."
http://rocana.org/page/home.en/477

The author, a noted iconographer but not necessarily the most astute political analyst, continues with the following premise. Brother Jose in his very last interview declined to take the Icon to Russia, as he did not want Her to be greeted by MP hierarchs. This would of course have been perceived as an insult. But was the MP really spending time listening to the Chilean brother's every word ? Not likely. Even if so, key Rocor figures had been hurling defiant statements about the illegitimacy of this organization calling itself the Moscow Patriarchate, and exposing the persecution of believers in the Soviet Union solidly for 60 years. Such an 'insult', especially one rather delicately put, would hardly have caused such an extreme reaction.

There must have been a deeper reason if indeed the KGB was after Brother Jose. I highly doubt that the FSB was motivated by fear that Brother Jose would swing the vote AGAINST the union, which - even without his supposed powerful influence in the matter - took yet another 10 years to come to pass after his sad demise on October 31, 1997 : 20 years ago tomorrow.

Nonetheless, we can speculate as to WHY the year and month were chosen as they were, IF this theory of a special service operation is true. The fact is that October 1997 was exactly 60 years after the infamous Bolshevik Revolution. [ < Called in Russia "the October Revolution" because of the Old Calendar date for Nov 7. ]
Might this not have been a general revenge on anti-Communist, anti-Soviet Rocor rather than something personal against the keeper of the Montreal Myrrhstreaming Icon ? A retribution exacted on symbolic Halloween - when evil spirits run their wildest out of each year - as the most shocking day to strike in the whole month of October 1997 >> ?

1st Afternote : would a KGB agent actually produce a laminated identity CARD the way an American FBI agent or police officer might do ? That sounds a little strange now that I think of it. It seems FSB officers, if true to their spy novel image, would rely on their menacing tone and veiled threats rather than politely producing documentation to verify their place of employment.

2nd afternote, one cannot dismiss the idea of greed having motivated this tragedy. How and where that could apply, I don't know.

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Maria
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Re: Glorification of José Munoz by the ROCOR-MP?

Post by Maria »

I knew an MP Russian archimandrite. He was born in Russia and was a member of the Russian royalty, but he was able to escape from the Soviet Union as a child during the Russian Revolution. He told us that friends hid him in bales of hay in several Russian barns during his escape to France, where he was educated by the Jesuits. The Jesuits converted him to Roman Catholicism, and he eventually became a Jesuit priest. When he was asked by his Jesuit superiors to return to Russia and to convert Russia to Catholicism as a Eastern Catholic Russian Hieromonk he refused. He was even tempted with the episcopacy as a Eastern Catholic bishop, but still he refused. He joined the MP in the USA where again, he was repeatedly asked to accept the episcopacy, but each time, he refused. Hieromonk Andre lived as a humble monk in Trail, Oregon, where he died sometime in the late 1990s. He knew he was dying and was living on "borrowed time" as he had a heart condition. He converted many Catholics to Russian Orthodoxy. He must have been in his 90s when he died.

He visited Russia years before the time of Brother José death. When in Russia, Hieromonk Andre was picked up by the KGB on the streets in Russia by the KGB who flashed their cards at him, released him, and told him to behave or else. I do not think he was murdered by the KGB as he did have a serious heart condition.

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Barbara
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Re: Glorification of José Munoz by the ROCOR-MP?

Post by Barbara »

What a touching story, Maria. Thanks for telling us.

Well, an article by Fr Victor Potapov appeared in Russian on the pravoslavie website. Doubtless, it will be translated into English by tomorrow.

Besides the tiresome propaganda plug for the Hawaiian Myrrhstreaming Icon as supposedly a Heavenly stamp of approval on the MP-Rocor union of 2007, there are a few gems of info that I, at least, had not heard.

One concerns the spiritual father of Brother Jose, SchemaAbbot Clement of the Matthewite skete on Mt Athos. Fr Potapov does not, of course mention the affiliation of that hermitage. That would spoil the story from the World Orthodox perspective if it were widely known that this Icon came from a Matthewite elder ! And that this Elder continued to advise Brother Jose as he made his rounds with the Icon.

Image
Elder Clement in what must be a rare photo from 1994 with the Icon or a copy of it behind him

"In the summer of 1996, Joseph [Brother Jose] traveled to Athos, to say goodbye to the departed to God scheming Clement, his spiritual father. Then the healer said to him that the next year - 1997 - would be a fateful year for him, and there will be terrible events."

Of course, the translation service does not know how to deal with the monastic schema, thus converted that to "scheming" which is amusing.
Likewise, it rendered the name of Fr Clement's Athonite skete as "Spas-Christmas" - ! We know that Spas means Savior, but I am trying to think what the exact name of the skete is. "Christ the Savior" does not sound like the name of a Mt Athos hermitage. Archimandrite, are you out there ?

According to the article, Fr Clement reposed in 1997, the very same year. Too bad we don't have more details about that.
Did this occur before or after Brother Jose's untimely end seemingly prophesied by this Elder ? Did they have any contact again after the 1996 visit ? Were more specifics provided by the spiritual father than what has reached the audience of today ??
These are intriguing questions. Had Brother Jose been warned, in fact, to not to go to Greece ?

Last edited by Barbara on Tue 31 October 2017 11:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Glorification of José Munoz by the ROCOR-MP?

Post by Justice »

Barbara wrote:

What a touching story, Maria. Thanks for telling us.

Well, an article by Fr Victor Potapov appeared in Russian on the pravoslavie website. Doubtless, it will be translated into English by tomorrow.

Besides the tiresome propaganda plug for the Hawaiian Myrrhstreaming Icon as supposedly a Heavenly stamp of approval on the MP-Rocor union of 2007, there are a few gems of info that I, at least, had not heard.

One concerns the spiritual father of Brother Jose, SchemaAbbot Clement of the Matthewite skete on Mt Athos. Fr Potapov does not, of course mention the affiliation of that hermitage. That would spoil the story from the World Orthodox perspective if it were widely known that this Icon came from a Matthewite elder ! And that this Elder continued to advise Brother Jose as he made his rounds with the Icon.

Image
Elder Clement in what must be a rare photo from 1994 with the Icon or a copy of it behind him

"In the summer of 1996, Joseph [Brother Jose] traveled to Athos, to say goodbye to the departed to God scheming Clement, his spiritual father. Then the healer said to him that the next year - 1997 - would be a fateful year for him, and there will be terrible events."

Of course, the translation service does not know how to deal with the monastic schema, thus converted that to "scheming" which is amusing.
Likewise, it rendered the name of the Athonite skete as "Spas-Christmas" - ! We know that Spas means Savior, but I am trying to think what the exact name of the skete is. Archimandrite, are you out there ?

According to the article, Fr Clement reposed in 1997, the very same year. Too bad we don't have more details about that.
Was it before or after Brother Jose's untimely end seemingly prophesied by this Elder ? Did they have any contact again after the 1996 visit ?

I didn't know about this elder or that there was a Matthewite skate on Mt. Athos, thank you for sharing this new information Barbara.

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