Old Believers and Old Calendarists

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NotChrysostomYet
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Re: Old Believers and Old Calendarists

Post by NotChrysostomYet »

Justice wrote:

I agree, some of the things they argue for were quite laughable and others were more justified. I've never thought about how the spelling changes would be better in the Old Rite today, that's just another reason why this schism shouldn't have happened.

Indeed. (Though the only reforms I can think of that I would co so far as to say I would agree with would be the spelling corrections (not spelling changes, mind you) and the standardization of the liturgical books across Russia. However, it could be argued that these things are somewhat independent of Nikon's Reforms, as the Old Believers themselves were supportive of this and voluntarily did this to their own books.

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Re: Old Believers and Old Calendarists

Post by Justice »

Maria wrote:
NotChrysostomYet wrote:
Justice wrote:

Actually the number of Old Calendarists is way more than 500,000 there are suspected to be at least 1 million in Russia alone.

Frankly that would surprise me very much, partly because the Russian Orthodox Church is still on the Old Calendar (therefore diminishing the appeal of an Old Calendarist jurisdiction for people in Russia - Old Calendarism is primarily a phenomenon in Greece). But perhaps you're right. Do you know of any synods that claim at least a decent fraction of that number in Russia?

Still, the point remains: playing the numbers game as an Old Calendarist is not to your advantage, especially when I'm not even trying to say that the Old Believers as they are today are the "true" Orthodox. :wink:

True Orthodox do not worship with the Traditional Old-Calendar Sergianist MP.

There are many Traditional True Orthodox in Russia who worship at home with no church to attend. Many of the True Orthodox in Russia who started worshiping in real churches after 1990 have been openly persecuted by Russian Police sympathetic to the MP. These persecutions include the destruction of their churches or the legal loss of their church, which they had built with their own funds and labor, the theft of their chalices, icons, service books, vestments, candles, relics, caskets containing the body of holy saints, and/or the imprisonment or detention of their priests and parishioners. These Traditional Orthodox are now forced to worship in private.

In Russia, there are thousands or close to a million or more of Traditional True Orthodox (aka Catacomb Orthodox Christians) who continue to worship privately with a few trusted friends and priests in homes, in forests, in caves, in old mines, etc. as they did during the Soviet era. These Russians belong to the Greek Matthewites under Kyrikos or Archbishop Stephanos, to the RTOC, to the ROAC, to the GOC-K, or to other Traditionalist Orthodox.

Here in the USA, many Old-Calendarists True Orthodox are not within traveling distance by car, so they pray at home, call their priests for Holy Confession, and generally visit their churches once every one to five years if possible. My husband and I find ourselves in this situation. Our home has become a Domestic Church.

Correct Maria there are many instances of persecution the ROAC has been denied entry into Russia at the airport.

Link: http://www.roacusa.org/content.php?id=37

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NotChrysostomYet
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Re: Old Believers and Old Calendarists

Post by NotChrysostomYet »

Maria wrote:
NotChrysostomYet wrote:
Maria wrote:

Here in the USA, many Old-Calendarists are not within traveling distance by car, so they pray at home, call their priests for Holy Confession, and generally visit their churches once every one to five years if possible. My husband and I find ourselves in this situation. Our home has become a Domestic Church.

Once every three to five years!? :shock:

Oh, we want to move to be close to a church. We have searched for properties.
Nothing within our range so far that is suitable.

Lord have mercy.

Well it's good to hear that you want that. Lord willing one day you will find something suitable, as being close to a parish is something I think we can agree is highly important to living an Orthodox life as laymen/laywomen.

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Re: Old Believers and Old Calendarists

Post by Justice »

NotChrysostomYet wrote:
Maria wrote:
NotChrysostomYet wrote:

Once every three to five years!? :shock:

Oh, we want to move to be close to a church. We have searched for properties.
Nothing within our range so far that is suitable.

Lord have mercy.

Well it's good to hear that you want that. Lord willing one day you will find something suitable, as being close to a parish is something I think we can agree is highly important to living an Orthodox life as laymen/laywomen.

It's worse here in the Mid-west where the's no TOC at all the closest one for me is in Texas where Father Irineos's mission parish is.

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Maria
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Re: Old Believers and Old Calendarists

Post by Maria »

Justice wrote:
Maria wrote:
NotChrysostomYet wrote:

Frankly that would surprise me very much, partly because the Russian Orthodox Church is still on the Old Calendar (therefore diminishing the appeal of an Old Calendarist jurisdiction for people in Russia - Old Calendarism is primarily a phenomenon in Greece). But perhaps you're right. Do you know of any synods that claim at least a decent fraction of that number in Russia?

Still, the point remains: playing the numbers game as an Old Calendarist is not to your advantage, especially when I'm not even trying to say that the Old Believers as they are today are the "true" Orthodox. :wink:

True Orthodox do not worship with the Traditional Old-Calendar Sergianist MP.

There are many Traditional True Orthodox in Russia who worship at home with no church to attend. Many of the True Orthodox in Russia who started worshiping in real churches after 1990 have been openly persecuted by Russian Police sympathetic to the MP. These persecutions include the destruction of their churches or the legal loss of their church, which they had built with their own funds and labor, the theft of their chalices, icons, service books, vestments, candles, relics, caskets containing the body of holy saints, and/or the imprisonment or detention of their priests and parishioners. These Traditional Orthodox are now forced to worship in private.

In Russia, there are thousands or close to a million or more of Traditional True Orthodox (aka Catacomb Orthodox Christians) who continue to worship privately with a few trusted friends and priests in homes, in forests, in caves, in old mines, etc. as they did during the Soviet era. These Russians belong to the Greek Matthewites under Kyrikos or Archbishop Stephanos, to the RTOC, to the ROAC, to the GOC-K, or to other Traditionalist Orthodox.

Here in the USA, many Old-Calendarists True Orthodox are not within traveling distance by car, so they pray at home, call their priests for Holy Confession, and generally visit their churches once every one to five years if possible. My husband and I find ourselves in this situation. Our home has become a Domestic Church.

Correct Maria there are many instances of persecution the ROAC has been denied entry into Russia at the airport.

Link: http://www.roacusa.org/content.php?id=37

Read this thread for more information on the persecutions suffered by the ROAC in Russia.

http://www.euphrosynoscafe.com/forum/vi ... f=2&t=9626

Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me a sinner.

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NotChrysostomYet
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Re: Old Believers and Old Calendarists

Post by NotChrysostomYet »

Side-note: we may want to split the above discussion about Old Calendarism in Russia into another thread.

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Maria
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Re: Old Believers and Old Calendarists

Post by Maria »

NotChrysostomYet wrote:

Side-note: we may want to split the above discussion about Old Calendarism in Russia into another thread.

It is already too much to handle because the two topics are interwoven so often. Let it go.
Besides, we have hashed this stuff before, so nothing presented here is new.

Some of the Old Calendarists Catacomb Orthodox who are currently alive in Russia and in other former Soviet countries may be in an irregular situation, i.e., not under a canonical bishop and not having a priest to serve them.

I just changed the title. Does that help?

Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me a sinner.

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