Old Believers and Old Calendarists

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NotChrysostomYet
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Re: Old Believers and Old Calendarists

Post by NotChrysostomYet »

Here are the Old Rite's Seven-fold Prayers translated into English, which I had previously posted on reddit:

The Sevenfold Beginnings or the Seven-seven Rule, also known as the entrance and exiting prayers, are a series of seven prayers preformed before corporate worship or before beginning of one's own prayers. There are then repeated at the end of corporate worship or at the end of one's own prayers. Additionally, these prayers are also done when one is entering or leaving their home.

Each of the seven prayers is ended with the Sign of the Cross and then a bow from the waist, with the exception of the fourth prayer (prostration instead of waist bow) and the dismissal (essentially an eighth prayer) when a full prostration, or "Great Earthly Bow", is preformed without the Sign of the Cross.

These prayers are known as a "principle" or general rule among the Old Believers, as the texts of the prayers themselves are not a major concern: rather it is the fact that seven prayers are preformed with bows and a prostration by individual worshippers that is important.

The translation from Erie, PA of one of the standard versions of these prayers are as follows:

God be merciful to me a sinner. Bow.

Thou hast created me; Lord, have mercy on me. Bow.

I have sinned immeasurably; Lord, forgive me. (Some say: have mercy and forgive me a sinner.) Bow.

It is Truly meet* to bless thee, O Theotokos, the ever-blessed and most immaculate and the Mother of Our God. More honorable than the cherubim and more glorious than the seraphim; thee who without defilement gavest birth to God the Word, the true Mother of God, thee do we magnify. Prostration, always.

*Some do a bow from the waist here, but Erie's Old Orthodox Prayer Book makes no mention of this practice.

Glory to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit. Bow.

Now and ever, and unto the ages of ages. Amen. Bow.

Lord, have mercy. Lord, have mercy. Lord, bless. Bow.

Then the Dismissal:

Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, through the prayers of They most pure Mother, by the power of the precious and life-giving Cross, through the prayers of my Guardian Angel, and of all the saints, have mercy on me and save me a sinner, for Thou art good and lovest mankind. Prostration.
Some priestless Old Believers, most notably the Нетовцы, have taken the Sevenfold Beginnings and altered its meaning to become a sort of rite that causes one to enter into the Old Orthodox faith (edit: as a replacement for baptism). But, as mentioned earlier, this is an uncommon view among the Old Believers.

(The prayer book where these prayers are found is what began my interest in the Old Rite.) Part of what I find attractive about the Old Rite is that it is more orderly (for lack of a better term), that it tends to emphasize the role of the body in prayer a little more, and that it is more aesthetically pleasing (as silly as that sounds). I don't exactly enjoy the fact that I like it for those reasons, but it is the case nonetheless.

Last edited by NotChrysostomYet on Sun 17 September 2017 9:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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NotChrysostomYet
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Re: Old Believers and Old Calendarists

Post by NotChrysostomYet »

Maria wrote:
NotChrysostomYet wrote:

Side-note: we may want to split the above discussion about Old Calendarism in Russia into another thread.

It is already too much to handle because the two topics are interwoven so often. Let it go.
Besides, we have hashed this stuff before, so nothing presented here is new.

Some of the Old Calendarists Catacomb Orthodox who are currently alive in Russia and in other former Soviet countries may be in an irregular situation, i.e., not under a canonical bishop and not having a priest to serve them.

I just changed the title. Does that help?

Yeah, good point. Also, the title change does help. /\

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NotChrysostomYet
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Re: Old Believers and Old Calendarists

Post by NotChrysostomYet »

Something else I thought of that makes for an interesting parallel between the Old Believers and Old Calendarism: after Patriarch Nikon's reforms, the Moscow Patriarchate started receiving Roman Catholics by chrismation rather than by baptism. Old Believers rejected this change, instead insisting on baptism (done with the two finger sign of the cross) still.

Justice
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Re: Old Believers and Old Calendarists

Post by Justice »

NotChrysostomYet wrote:

Something else I thought of that makes for an interesting parallel between the Old Believers and Old Calendarism: after Patriarch Nikon's reforms, the Moscow Patriarchate started receiving Roman Catholics by chrismation rather than by baptism. Old Believers rejected this change, instead insisting on baptism (done with the two finger sign of the cross) still.

Really? The Traditional Orthodox insist on re-baptizing anyone who hasn't gotten a canonical baptism, I wouldn't think the Moscow Patriarchate would do that until after the 1924 schism.

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NotChrysostomYet
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Re: Old Believers and Old Calendarists

Post by NotChrysostomYet »

Justice wrote:
NotChrysostomYet wrote:

Something else I thought of that makes for an interesting parallel between the Old Believers and Old Calendarism: after Patriarch Nikon's reforms, the Moscow Patriarchate started receiving Roman Catholics by chrismation rather than by baptism. Old Believers rejected this change, instead insisting on baptism (done with the two finger sign of the cross) still.

Really? The Traditional Orthodox insist on re-baptizing anyone who hasn't gotten a canonical baptism, I wouldn't think the Moscow Patriarchate would do that until after the 1924 schism.

Yes, really. Here is an excerpt from the essay On the Question of the Order of Reception of Persons into the Orthodox Church, Coming to Her from Other Christian Churches by Archimandrite Ambrosius (Pogodin):

The decree of the Moscow Council of 1620 about the re-baptism of Latins, Uniats, Lutherans and Calvinists was soon recognized to be in error and was repealed very quickly. The decree was reached only as a result of the hatred towards the non-Orthodox because of the persecution by them, which the Russian Church suffered, as was pointed out by Metropolitan Macarius of Moscow, author of the monumental history of the Russian Church. Another historian of the Russian Church, Archbishop Philaret (Gumilevsky) writes: "The decision is incorrect in the light of the Church’s teaching, but is understandable because of the terrors of that time." Patriarch Nikon, with his brilliant mind, could not but recognize the error of that decision and rescinded it twice. During the Church Council of 1655, Patriarch Nikon and the Council fathers decreed that the re-baptism of Poles is illegal and repealed the need to receive them into Orthodoxy by re-baptism, directing this to be done by chrismation. At the Church Council that took place in the following year (1666) presided over by the same Patriarch Nikon, the same subject was once again brought up for discussion. Metropolitan Macarius writes:

"It was felt that it was necessary to debate this matter once again. All Russian bishops were invited to this new Council along with the metropolitan of Kazan. The Antiochian Patriarch Macarius again insisted that the Latins should not be re-baptized when converting to Orthodoxy and had a heated argument with the Russian hierarchs. He tried to convince them by making references to their own books of Canons. To support his argument, he presented an extract from some ancient Greek book brought from Mt. Athos, which made a detailed analysis of the subject, and in this way compelled the Russian bishops to submit, however reluctantly, to the truth. This extract, signed by Macarius, was presented to the sovereign (Tsar Aleksei Mikhailovich), translated into Russian, printed and handed out. The Tsar issued an Ukaz that prohibited the baptism of Poles and others belonging to the same faith. Not satisfied with all this Macarius, who soon left Moscow, sent a letter to Nikon about the same matter. Along with this Patriarch Macarius wrote to Patriarch Nikon that "the Latins must not be re-baptized: they have the seven sacraments and all seven Councils, and they are all baptized correctly in the name of the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit with an invocation of the Holy Trinity. We must recognize their baptism. They are only schismatics, and schism does not make a man unfaithful and unbaptized. It only separates him from the Church. Mark of Ephesus himself, who opposed the Latins, never demanded their re-baptism and accepted their baptism as a correct one."

You can read the full essay here: http://www.holy-trinity.org/ecclesiolog ... n-ch2.html

Since this time the Russian Church has always received Latins via chrismation.

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Maria
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Re: Old Believers and Old Calendarists

Post by Maria »

The Russian Orthodox Church has indeed been chrismating Roman Catholics, and even receiving some Catholics, especially those in the Eastern Catholic Churches by Confession of Faith and Communion. I spoke with an archimandrite in the Russian Orthodox Church under the MP back in 1995, and he was receiving Roman Catholics into Orthodoxy through confession. There was no need to deny the Papacy, the Immaculate Conception, or the Filioque either. This is Ecumenism.

So, when the ROCOR went under the MP in 2007, lots of red flags were raised.

Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me a sinner.

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Re: Old Believers and Old Calendarists

Post by NotChrysostomYet »

Maria wrote:

The Russian Orthodox Church has indeed been chrismating Roman Catholics, and even receiving some Catholics, especially those in the Eastern Catholic Churches by Confession of Faith and Communion. I spoke with an archimandrite in the Russian Orthodox Church under the MP back in 1995, and he was receiving Roman Catholics into Orthodoxy through confession. There was no need to deny the Papacy, the Immaculate Conception, or the Filioque either. This is Ecumenism.

So, when the ROCOR went under the MP in 2007, lots of red flags were raised.

Are you saying then that Orthodox Church has been in heresy or in communion with heretics for 400+ years? Because that's what it sounds like.

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