ROCOR was ecumenist from the beginning

DIscussion and News concerning Orthodox Churches in communion with those who have fallen into the heresies of Ecumenism, Renovationism, Sergianism, and Modernism, or those Traditional Orthodox Churches who are now involved with Name-Worshiping, or vagante jurisdictions. All Forum Rules apply. No polemics. No heated discussions. No name-calling.


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Barbara
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Re: ROCOR was ecumenist from the beginning

Post by Barbara »

I like what d9popov said above about Rocor's shining moments under Metropolitan Philaret, and that earlier mistakes should be treated tolerantly. That is a balanced, reasonable approach.

Also he wrote that Rocor produced many Saints and holy people. This is a never-ending marvel. Probably half of the holy ones are barely known today, I bet. They lived their lives quietly and never became 'household names' among the Russian Orthodox jurisdictions.
But if some nice memoirs are uncovered about 'hidden' Rocor clergy, monastics and laity, how wonderful that would be to discover these exemplary lives.

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Barbara
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Re: ROCOR was ecumenist from the beginning

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Back to Bishop Panteleimon [Rudyk], I uncovered while researching the thread http://www.euphrosynoscafe.com/forum/vi ... 12&t=12373
that it was the notorious Met Nikodim [Rotov] of sorry memory who conned Bp Panteleimon of Edmonton into defecting to Rocor's archenemy the MP.
This operation - likely masterminded by the KGB - occurred around June 1959. What a great pity !

In my opinion, Rocor should have concentrated its meager resources on 'counterintelligence' to prevent such embarrassments and also security lapses. For when Bp Panteleimon's Aeroflot plane landed in Moscow, he was certainly nabbed and debriefed by Soviet experts.

Thus, Rocor lost more than one hierarch. Lots of insider information about Rocor would then have enriched the KGB strategists whose job it was to probe for weaknesses of the Church Abroad in order to undermine her.

Justice
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Re: ROCOR was ecumenist from the beginning

Post by Justice »

Even though ROCOR was in communion with the New Calendarists, this doesn't make them ecumenist. The majority of ROCOR parishes (excluding parishes like the ROCA in Hobart Tasmania which has concelebrated with the World Orthodox since 1973) refused to give communion to the New Calendarists. Like the Matthewites, they wanted to see if the New Calendarists and World Orthodoxy would return to the traditional calendar. Sadly, this never came to pass and the ROCOR finally rejected the World Orthodox in favor of the Traditionalists. Even though ROCOR never produced an official statement saying that the New Calendarises were outside the church, there actions such as siding with the True Orthodox and refusing to co-celebrate with the New Calendarists definitely show that the majority of the ROCOR wasn't ecumenist front the beginning.

Actions speak louder than words.

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Maria
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Re: ROCOR was ecumenist from the beginning

Post by Maria »

Justice wrote:

Even though ROCOR was in communion with the New Calendarists, this doesn't make them ecumenist. The majority of ROCOR parishes (excluding parishes like the ROCA in Hobart Tasmania which has concelebrated with the World Orthodox since 1973) refused to give communion to the New Calendarists. Like the Matthewites, they wanted to see if the New Calendarists and World Orthodoxy would return to the traditional calendar. Sadly, this never came to pass and the ROCOR finally rejected the World Orthodox in favor of the Traditionalists. Even though ROCOR never produced an official statement saying that the New Calendarises were outside the church, there actions such as siding with the True Orthodox and refusing to co-celebrate with the New Calendarists definitely show that the majority of the ROCOR wasn't ecumenist front the beginning.

Actions speak louder than words.

The situation during the time of Met. Philaret was very complex. Although Met. Philaret was righteous, certain members of his synod, notably the notorious Archbishop Anthony of Geneva were ecumenists who sided with the MP in favoring the World Council of Churches and who concelebrated with the EP. Met. Philaret by his words and deeds tried to convince these ecumenists that their ways were wrong. That Met Philaret succeeded in getting his synod to pass the 1983 denouncement of ecumenism was laudable, but it was not enough.

That Met. Philaret came down with cancer shortly after 1983 is, in my opinion, not a coincident as the KGB had developed weapons which could not only cause a massive rapid heart attack and cause an immediate death, but also they could cause slow painful deaths by cancer or by plutonium. A slow debilitating death allowed Met. Philaret's pro-MP and pro-KGB enemies to stage the final assault on the ROCOR, for as soon as Met. Phliaret had died, the ecumenists and pro-MP faction took over ROCOR, and the Boston Monastery, seeing this flagrant ecumenism, was the first group to break away in schism from the ROCOR. Anthony of Geneva played a significant but behind the scenes role in the MP/KGB subversion of the ROCOR, as would be expected of a KGB agent.

Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me a sinner.

Justice
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Re: ROCOR was ecumenist from the beginning

Post by Justice »

Indeed the situation was complex. One example the World Orthodox use is to point out that Met. Philaret cocelebrated with the Jerusalem Patriarchate. What they don't realize is that Met Philaret never wanted to participate in this. He only reluctantly cocelebrated to secure the ROCOR's missions in Palestine. I've learn in the past day that even though the ROCOR remained in communion with the World Orthodox, it didn't innovate and participate in ecumenism as the World Orthodox did. Indeed ROCOR was never ecumenism from the beginning.

jdigrande
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Re: ROCOR was ecumenist from the beginning

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At the 1600th anniversary of the Council of Nicea, did Met. Antony Krapovitsky engage in joint prayers with the other heretics there?

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RaphaCam
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Re: ROCOR was ecumenist from the beginning

Post by RaphaCam »

Justice wrote:

Even though ROCOR was in communion with the New Calendarists, this doesn't make them ecumenist. The majority of ROCOR parishes (excluding parishes like the ROCA in Hobart Tasmania which has concelebrated with the World Orthodox since 1973) refused to give communion to the New Calendarists. Like the Matthewites, they wanted to see if the New Calendarists and World Orthodoxy would return to the traditional calendar. Sadly, this never came to pass and the ROCOR finally rejected the World Orthodox in favor of the Traditionalists. Even though ROCOR never produced an official statement saying that the New Calendarises were outside the church, there actions such as siding with the True Orthodox and refusing to co-celebrate with the New Calendarists definitely show that the majority of the ROCOR wasn't ecumenist front the beginning.

Actions speak louder than words.

Sure this wasn't in respect for canonical boundaries? I mean, most New Calendarists weren't in communion with ROCOR at all, so it wouldn't be right to disrespect this fact in giving communion to and concelebrating with each other's faithful. A conscious Antiochian Orthodox shouldn't commune at a Jerusalemite parish, for instance.

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