ROCOR was ecumenist from the beginning

DIscussion and News concerning Orthodox Churches in communion with those who have fallen into the heresies of Ecumenism, Renovationism, Sergianism, and Modernism, or those Traditional Orthodox Churches who are now involved with Name-Worshiping, or vagante jurisdictions. All Forum Rules apply. No polemics. No heated discussions. No name-calling.


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Maria
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Re: ROCOR was ecumenist from the beginning

Post by Maria »

m. Evfrosinia wrote:

In conclusion, during their first years outside of Russia, the hierarchs of the the ROCOR kept up contacts amongst the heterodox, and to some extent, entered into various dialogues with them, as that had been established still in Russia before the revolution. I do not believe, however, that this makes them ecumenist, nor that you can find any heretical document of an ecclesiological nature made by them during this period. After World War II, when ecumenism began to develope, and the branch theory began to spread and was widely accepted, Divine Providence lead the hierarchs of ROCOR to elect Met. Philaret as their Primate. I believe that he was the first one to truly understand the dangers of ecumenism, and to warn all of the orthodox against it, as we can read in his "Sorrowful Epistles". Ultimately, this resulted in ROCOR's anathema against ecumenism.

Thank you very much for sharing this, Mother Evfrosinia.

Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me a sinner.

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m. Evfrosinia
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Re: ROCOR was ecumenist from the beginning

Post by m. Evfrosinia »

Of course the book was a mistake, and ultimately neither the Russian Church in Russia nor ROCOR entered into any sort of communion with the Anglican Church, as history tells us. The difference is that in the beginning of the XXth century such a proposition could at least be considered and discussed, while today Anglicanism has moved so far away from any sort of traditional Christianity, let alone Orthodoxy, that no one would even think of it.

d9popov
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Re: ROCOR was ecumenist from the beginning

Post by d9popov »

Barbara wrote:

No one else but the First Hierarch was otherwise granted this title [of Metropolitan]. Only when Met Anastassy passed the 'torch' to Metropolitan Philaret were there 2 Metropolitans of the Church alive at the same time.

This is historically incorrect. ROCOR had several metropolitans who were never first-hierarchs, sometimes at the same time:
Mefodii (Gerasimov), Metropolitan of Harbin and Manchuria (15/28 March 1931)
Innokentii (Figurovskii), Metropolitan of Peking and China (15/28 June 1931)
Serafim (Lade), Metropolitan of Berlin and Germany (1/14 September 1950)
Panteleimon (Rozhnovskii), ret. Metropolitan of Minsk and Byelorussia (17/30 December 1950)
Avgustin (Peterson), ret. Metropolitan of Riga and Latvia (4 October 1955)
Platon (Rozhdestvenskii), Metropolitan of America, went into schism in 1924
Evlogii (Georgievskii), Metropolitan of Paris, went into schism in 1926

In theory, early ROCOR was supposed to have at least four metropolitans at one time: in Sremski Karlovci (for the Balkans), Paris, America, and China and/or Japanese-occupied areas of China called "Manchuria."

These are important facts to keep in mind when Archimandrite Nilos asserts that ROCOR was ecumenist from the beginning and that Saint John Maximovitch is not a saint. ROCOR inherited a lot of diversity in the 1920s. ROCOR, correctly, clamped down on ecumenist deviations and issued the Anathema Against Ecumenism in 1983. Archimandrite Nilos should be aware that both the Ecumenical Patriarchate and the Church of Greece entered into some forms of ecumenism several years before 1924 (even in the late 1800s). Think: Patriarch Joachim III. This does not invalidate the Greek True Orthodox. Neither do mistakes in early ROCOR invalidate the ROCOR of Saint Philaret. ROCOR produced many saints and holy men and women. It was a grace-bearing church as is the Florinite-Akkakian-Auxentian succession in Greece that Saint Philaret fully recognized. God forbid that we would blaspheme against the grace of the Holy Trinity that sanctified these holy people.

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Barbara
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Re: ROCOR was ecumenist from the beginning

Post by Barbara »

Excellent, thank you for the correction.
Since that time, I have come across references to Met Mefody, but I didn't connect that with my post !

So - Met Innokenty of Peking, of course a famous name, was included in Rocor ? Interesting !

And yes ~! I always wondered WHY Met Seraphim [ Lade ] was given that title ?

"Panteleimon (Rozhnovskii), ret. Metropolitan of Minsk and Byelorussia (17/30 December 1950)
Avgustin (Peterson), ret. Metropolitan of Riga and Latvia (4 October 1955)"

These two I had scarcely heard of, if at all. I remember one Rocor hierarch Panteleimon who defected to the MP, but I doubt this is the same.

I would like to know more about their lives. Why was Met Avgustin with such a last name ? What nationality was he ?
And then why were both given authority for these areas of Byelorussia and Latvia ? That is a tremendously interesting glimpse into the earlier days of Rocor.
How did that work ? Was it to counter the Mp hierarchs of those areas ? I am sure these positions were tightly bound up with the East-West politics of the time.

As for the last two, I close my eyes when I see their names. Ugh, I can't stand either defector !

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Re: ROCOR was ecumenist from the beginning

Post by d9popov »

You are welcome. The idea was that ROCOR would have four metropolitans, resident in Sremski Karlovci (for Southeastern Europe), Western Europe, North America, and East Asia. I believe Metropolitan Serafim Lade of Berlin was consecrated after Metropolitan Evlogii of Paris left ROCOR. Two of the metropolitans were active in Latvia and Byelorussia, respectively, and then retired within the Church Abroad. Metropolitan Avgustin Peterson was a Latvian of Baltic Germanic/Scandinavian descent. One last "metropolitan" could also be mentioned: ROCOR Archbishop Germogen Maksimov of Aksai, who was proclaimed "Metropolitan" and even "Patriarch" of "Zagreb and all Croatia" by the Croatian Nazis in 1942. He was immediately excommunicated by the Serbian Patriarchate and ROCOR. He was killed in June 1945 by the Yugoslav Communists for collaboration with the Croatian Nazis, who committed genocide against the Serbian Orthodox in Croatia and Bosnia-Herzegovina from 1941 to 1945. Germogen claimed that he collaborated to save as many lives as possible of Orthodox Christians under Croatian Ustasha (Nazi) rule. Around 2010, Bishop Akakije Stankovic of the Serbian True Orthodox Church persuaded the Russian True Orthodox Church that Germogen should NOT be proclaimed a martyr (as a few Russians wanted).

Several Serbs and ROCOR people had some type of ecumenical contacts, especially with Old Catholics and conservative Anglicans, but these Orthodox did not proclaim the Roman Church to be a branch or lung of the Church or a "Sister Church." These Orthodox sincerely worked to get Old Catholics and conservative Anglicans united to Orthodoxy. Sadly, those churches went in a left-liberal direction.

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Barbara
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Re: ROCOR was ecumenist from the beginning

Post by Barbara »

Yes those churches certainly did. It's mind - boggling how far left they strayed.

This is a great summary and clarification of Rocor's really minimal involvement in ecumenism, and not with the same goals as those involved in recent decades in the EP, etc.

Rudyk ! I remembered that last name after I saw your post and was out driving, ironically down the main street on a busy Friday afternoon. Nonetheless, this name flashed into in my mind.
I feel almost sure that this Panteleimon must have been the defector hierarch.

I was going to say above that I was almost sure the last name started with an R. Then I saw that your Met Panteleimon has the same initial letter of his last name.
But that last name wasn't familiar.

So I was glad to finally make a guess at which one it was who stuck out in my mind for having switched sides.
WHAT could have persuaded these hierarchs to do that ??
I think it's of relevance in the case of Abp Seraphim [Sobolev] too. I would like to figure out why they were so easily won over by MP blandishments.

I forgot to mention that I appreciate now understanding about the early Rocor plan for 4 regions, each headed by a Metropolitan. That would have made sense, as all had recently emigrated from the Russian Empire, where regional ecclesiastical heads were Metropolitans. Later on, perhaps the title got scaled back to Archbishop.

And that Met Seraphim [Lade] was the replacement for the jurisdictional waffler, Met Evlogy. I wonder whether this Met Seraphim was an outstanding hierarch ? Or there was just no one else at the time available and he was a native German so could ease the way linguistically ?

PS - Wasn't there also Metropolitan Melety of Harbin, speaking of the Manchurian diocese ? Which I guess extended as far south as Shanghai, since there was never a Metropolitan of Shanghai. As we know, the ruling hierarch of one of China's principal commercial capitals was Archbishop - later Saint - John [Maximovitch] up to the Communist takeover.

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Re: ROCOR was ecumenist from the beginning

Post by Justice »

Parts of the ROCOR continued to cocelebrate witht the heterodox even during the 1980s when the 1983 anathema was formed. Parts of ROCOR have been ecumenist since the begining.

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