Name-Glorifying's Encroachment into Russian Orthodoxy

DIscussion and News concerning Orthodox Churches in communion with those who have fallen into the heresies of Ecumenism, Renovationism, Sergianism, and Modernism, or those Traditional Orthodox Churches who are now involved with Name-Worshiping, or vagante jurisdictions. All Forum Rules apply. No polemics. No heated discussions. No name-calling.


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Suaidan
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Re: Rafail and Lurie against "Name-Fighting" heresy

Post by Suaidan »

Alexander Kuzmin wrote:

Metropolitan Valentine asked other bishops to sign empty papers and then added this text. You can read about it in the memories of Bishop Ambrose whose signature is also under this document and who later ordained bishop Gregory. Here is the text of Bishop Ambrose in Russian: http://www.portal-credo.ru/site/?act=authority&id=1180
He says that among all bishops only bishop Anthony was against Name-Glorifying, but his reason was "Because Father Victor Melekhov says this is a heresy".
But now Met Valentine and Bishop Anthony are both dead.

Besides Alexander Soldatov is mentioned in this document as a main Name-Glorifier, but now he receives Holy Communion in Suzdal and he lives there very often, you can see him on many pictures there (although he continues to publish documents on Name-Glorifying on his Portal-Credo.Ru).

Try to find some OTHER document of ROAC that says something against Name-Glorifying. I will be VERY MUCH surprised if you find something.

I said I would not say something, as I felt your heresy was getting tolerated here, but I don't like lies.

Your story is completely false. You may not know this (or you may, as one of your sect might have told you) I was present in Suzdal when the meeting that produced Protocols 51 & 52 took place. The basis of the text and the condemnation of name-worshipping was not only known to the Bishops but the majority of the signers were present. The alleged "issue" was the actual writing of the document, though the Bishops present did agree to the condemnation. They also ORDERED Senina and Soldatov to stop.

Furthermore, the Synod had already suspended him and called him to trial-- in fact, through a complete and bizarre coincidence (I had only come to light a candle as a favor), I showed up at the St Elizabeth parish, and saw him serving. His face turned white as bone, nodded slightly at me, and told the parish AFTER THAT SAME LITURGY that he had been suspended-- after which he left the country so he could not be "served" with the paperwork for deposition (serving under suspension alone is cause for deposition). Some attempted to say that there were false signers after the fact to bring the number of Bishops deposing him below six. The Synod had more than six Bishops there: Metr. Valentine, Abp Theodore, Abp Anthony, Bp Irinarch, Bp Timofei, Bp Seraphim and (if my memory serves me well, the others I spoke to) Bishop Ambrose.

So the entire argument is moot, as Gregory did not need the entire Synod to depose him. He needed six Bishops. I know for a fact there were more than six Bishops there. Because I WAS THERE.

You also neglect to mention is that the Synod did in fact agree to depose Father Gregory. Again, I know-- unlike you, obviously, I was actually there. Meanwhile, they worked furiously to agitate against the Synod, and parishoners in St Petersburg and elsewhere loyal to the Synod received anonymous threats by phone: I can attest I had some come to the downstairs door of my flat yelling and inviting me out to "have a conversation" (Russians with their cute euphemisms!)

You are trying to present Archbishop Anthony of Yaransk as feeble and weak. In fact, Abp Anthony kept Fr Victor under his protection against the Metropolitan's wishes (which the Metropolitan basically just opted to ignore). You neglect to mention the OTHER catacomb Bishop-- Abp Seraphim-- who had been making trips to strengthen the faithful, determine who were in the name-worshipper camp and report his findings to Suzdal. In fact, Luriye's servants watched for him to show up to "report" that Abp Seraphim was "trying to foment schism". But the surprise came when Luriye realized he had been outmaneuvered by an old Catacombnik and then it was just a short while before the suspension announcement.....

You claim everyone outside Metropolitan Valentine and Abp Anthony was on your side because "no one's saying anything". Metropolitan Theodore knows how you operate. Many of us remember Metr Valentine getting beaten and wrapped in that carpet. Here is the truth. All the heretics on your side have left with you. ROAC remains clean. I don't know what's going on with Soldatov. I do know, however, that ROAC sent six documents condemning Luriye and the role of Portal Credo-- paid for by none other than Gleb Pavlovsky-- in promoting him. ROAC doesn't talk about name-worshipping anymore, because your ilk have been booted from the Church. True Orthodox Russia, more and more, is forgetting you exist.

Your leader is nothing but a power-obsessed, four foot tall mafia thug, and the True Orthodox of Russia are not afraid of him. Now he wants the attention of Metropolitan Rafael? Luriye's made clever little inroads here and there in every Synod. But we will find them and we will cut them off.

Fr Joseph Suaidan (Suaiden, same guy)

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Alexander Kuzmin
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Re: Rafail and Lurie against "Name-Fighting" heresy

Post by Alexander Kuzmin »

From you and Bishop Ambrose I believe Bishop Ambrose. Finally, his signature is under the document and yours is not (besides there are other reasons not to believe you).

Maybe you can give a link to some other document of ROAC that condemns Name-Glorifying?

I study English, forgive my mistakes.

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Re: Rafail and Lurie against "Name-Fighting" heresy

Post by Suaidan »

Alexander Kuzmin wrote:

From you and Bishop Ambrose I believe Bishop Ambrose. Finally, his signature is under the document and yours is not (besides there are other reasons not to believe you).

Maybe you can give a link to some other document of ROAC that condemns Name-Glorifying?

Whose signature's on former Bishop Ambrose's deposition document? Oh wait. A whole bunch of Bishops I mentioned. Why, I even remember that for a couple of years Bp Ambrose was referred to as a "drunk" by your sect because he stuck with the Metropolitan-- till he was removed. Bp Sebastian had been deposed well before that. And these two upstanding clergyman were the "ordainers" of your deposed, excommunicated little "monk".

There is no document that condemns name-worshipping because it's already condemned. ROAC also hasn't put out a statement on Arianism or Roman Catholicism. And compared to what you say about ROAC's Bishops versus what I heard from their mouths, as you say, I believe the Bishops.

Fr Joseph Suaidan (Suaiden, same guy)

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Alexander Kuzmin
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Re: Rafail and Lurie against "Name-Fighting" heresy

Post by Alexander Kuzmin »

I understand that you cannot provide any other document of ROAC about condemnation of Name-Glorifying.
Maybe you can at least find a document of deposition of Bishop Ambrose to see who really signed it? There is no such document on http://rpac.ru/ , only his articles and reports (he was the only writing bishop of old ROAC).

And "being drunk" is about another person as I heard :-)
Do you want me to publish here some details? :-)

I study English, forgive my mistakes.

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Re: Rafail and Lurie against "Name-Fighting" heresy

Post by Suaidan »

Alexander Kuzmin wrote:

I understand that you cannot provide any other document of ROAC about condemnation of Name-Glorifying.

The Russian Church already did it. Unlike your sect, ROAC doesn't feel the need to reinvent Orthodoxy.

Maybe you can at least find a document of deposition of Bishop Ambrose to see who really signed it? There is no such document on http://rpac.ru/ , only his articles and reports (he was the only writing bishop of old ROAC).

Not part of ROAC anymore-- I'm sure the American ROAC folks can get it, if they really NEED it.

And "being drunk" is about another person as I heard :-)
Do you want me to publish here some details? :-)

No, because I didn't believe that about Bp Ambrose either. You're detracting from the topic and do it as your little cult always does. I was there, you weren't, and as always, you folks enjoy making stuff up and passing it around. I don't care about Bp Ambrose's drinking: I care about the fact that he's with a heretic now. And so are you.

Fr Joseph Suaidan (Suaiden, same guy)

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Alexander Kuzmin
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Re: Rafail and Lurie against "Name-Fighting" heresy

Post by Alexander Kuzmin »

Re-read your messages and see that this is you who is detracting from the topic and constantly using "argumentum ad hominem".

To sum up: you cannot provide any other document of ROAC condemning Name-Glorifying; you cannot provide the document of deposition of Bishop Ambrose. Period. ;-)

I study English, forgive my mistakes.

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Re: Rafail and Lurie against "Name-Fighting" heresy

Post by Suaidan »

Alexander Kuzmin wrote:

Re-read your messages and see that this is you who is detracting from the topic and constantly using "argumentum ad hominem".

To sum up: you cannot provide any other document of ROAC condemning Name-Glorifying; you cannot provide the document of deposition of Bishop Ambrose. Period. ;-)

Sure, you're right. But I've already explained why.

Because we can find documents of ROAC condemning people for being name-worshippers, since the Russian Church ALREADY condemned it.

And I'm sure anyone who wants the documents about Bishop Ambrose can call the Diocesan Bishop for their respective country and get it. Since I'm in a different Synod, I'd advise any interested party to do it. In the US, that'd be Archbishop Andrei. I'm sure he'd love to clarify the Synod's position on name-worshipping as well, since you seem not to get it.

Fr Joseph Suaidan (Suaiden, same guy)

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