Fake Spiritual Daughter of St John Maximovitch ?

DIscussion and News concerning Orthodox Churches in communion with those who have fallen into the heresies of Ecumenism, Renovationism, Sergianism, and Modernism, or those Traditional Orthodox Churches who are now involved with Name-Worshiping, or vagante jurisdictions. All Forum Rules apply. No polemics. No heated discussions. No name-calling.

Moderators: Maria, phpBB2 - Administrators

User avatar
Barbara
Protoposter
Posts: 3380
Joined: Sat 29 September 2012 10:03 pm

Re: Fake Spiritual Daughter of St John Maximovitch ?

Postby Barbara » Tue 24 April 2018 4:49 am

Response to your earlier post : very interesting what you are saying about all this, and about the recruitment of nuns to take care of the elderly, ill, orphans, etc. [ I thought immediately of the Minsk St Elizabeth Convent, but didn't want to mention it, as I never felt good about it, however admirable the work the nuns do there may be. Now I see you gave the example of that convent. Yes, it seems like a carefully arranged propaganda operation. This must be why I felt adverse to it from the minute I heard about nuns from there traveling around the US to various Rocor properties. ]

The only problem with this Nun Theodosia as a wayshower for emigration nuns to defect to MP monasteries is the fact that she herself seemed lukewarm. I was searching for a particular sentence in the interview, but will have to check again when I have time. The point being that Nun Theodosia seemed to care little about politics. It is the general mood of the emigration which she tells the reader was "500% against the Soviet Union". Yes, fine. But what about her ? And why do we know so little about her motivation to return ? Why is it glossed over that "a little later I met Vladyka Paul who was baptizing many people". How did she meet a Ukrainian-MP bishop when she was at the strict Ascension Convent in Jerusalem ? Perhaps he was an early recruiter of this same genre.

I suspect we will seeing more examples like this with life stories better refined so as to avoid these strange mistakes.

Let me say I hope that no one is fooled by this contrived interview. There is a photo furnished of the nun which looks generic. If anyone is at the Lavra, maybe they could go check up on this story. I would never waste time to speak with such a person even if I were standing in front of the entrance to the Far Caves.
And by the way, I didn't realize that nuns could live at the Lavra. Perhaps this is a new system ?

At least we are aware of the general strategy. Thus can look with eagle eyes at any future such 'interviews' churned out of the MP propaganda mill.

Speaking of eagles, the story about the orlets [ eagle rug for Bishops] gives away the other purpose here of the MP's tacticians : to denigrate St John Maximovitch. Jealousy fuels this wish, of course.

He is presented as so dreadful in appearance that the children go into hysterics at the mere sight of him. Ha ! This is NOT true. In all the OTHER accounts, children run to him or look happily at him, feeling his true heart's care. Never was it mentioned anywhere in the many hundreds of accounts of the holy hierarch's interactions with people that he inspired such a dismal reaction.
Last edited by Barbara on Tue 24 April 2018 5:09 am, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Maria
Archon
Posts: 7901
Joined: Sat 12 June 2004 12:39 am
Faith: True Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: GOC
Location: USA

Re: Fake Spiritual Daughter of St John Maximovitch ?

Postby Maria » Tue 24 April 2018 5:03 am

Again, realize that through fictional accounts like the movie The Priest, or true accounts, propagandists can be very clever, playing the heart strings of the listeners and readers to achieve their goals.

We know that Russia has lost a lot of its work force, that their birth rate is down, and that they are appealing to native Russians to return to Russia with the appeal, "The water is fine, come and join us."

Knowing that many Russians have left the USSR for religious reasons, the propagandists would love these people to return.

However, things have changed. Many Russians here in the USA and in Europe have lost their faith and have become secular humanists for the school system here in America and abroad is wicked.
Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me a sinner.

User avatar
Barbara
Protoposter
Posts: 3380
Joined: Sat 29 September 2012 10:03 pm

Re: Fake Spiritual Daughter of St John Maximovitch ?

Postby Barbara » Tue 24 April 2018 5:10 am

Russia has lost its work force - through alcoholism ? Low birth rate, like you mentioned - or other factors ? ]
This helps me to pin down why such a campaign is being conducted so apparently aggressively.

It seems to me that returning to a not so Holy Russia [ look at all those districts and streets and monuments named for Communists and Soviet heroes ! ] is no option for any Russian-American. But living here is really not a great idea either for the reasons you cited and many more. I can appreciate how difficult it might be for the descendants of the Russian emigres to find a suitable ambiance.

Maybe this is the reason for the MP's film about raising large families with awards and financial assistance in today's Russia : families living in the primitive jungle of modern American culture might be tempted to go somewhere to raise children with applause and reinforcements from society and the state.

User avatar
Barbara
Protoposter
Posts: 3380
Joined: Sat 29 September 2012 10:03 pm

Re: Fake Spiritual Daughter of St John Maximovitch ?

Postby Barbara » Tue 24 April 2018 3:23 pm

Returning to the dispute about the stuffed animals, Maria, you are extrapolating from wealthy contemporary America. Sure, toys might be donated to a parish for sick youth, with a bin put out for people to leave outgrown stuffed animals - that's a great idea ! TOC parishes could do that.

But you are forgetting that this was Paris after the War. My own relative lived there, rented an apartment and used Paris as a base to travel through Europe and beyond. But - my relative was of course American, and it was Americans who were the only real victors in that war when compared with the British and continental Europeans, whose economies were devastated and barely recovered for quite a long time. Americans were seen as fantastically wealthy, well-dressed, etc. by Europeans, who had suffered through 5 years of devastation. Drabness ruled the day for them. There was no food, coffee [ though I don't approve of it ! ] was non-existent in France under German occupation. They drank something called ersatz coffee which tasted horrible, but there was no other choice except alcohol. This concoction of roasted chicory and barley was so bitter that people would do anything to have a real cup of coffee. This could be obtained on the black market but at an exorbitant price. Profiteers took advantage of the situation, of course. There was no heat during some of the coldest winters in years and no nice fur coats to tough it out in freezing apartments. Paris was only starting to recover from this disaster when my relative lived there. But you can imagine that it took quite awhile : the memories of the severe deprivation remained.

Now, when considering the Russian emigration, then add an already perilous economic situation to this wartime severity and it is questionable whether St John would have indulged in such a frivolous thing as purchasing highly costly animals for children who would have needed 1,000 times more 1) his prayers 2) Icons 3) some little treat to eat to cheer them up 4) helped the parents pay for rent [ apartments cost a lot, and I don't mean in the 16e arrondissement. Everywhere flats were way overpriced ] 5) hospital bills [ I don't think the system was so socialized that hospitals were free ], medicines, etc.

St John often gave money -- cash -- though unobtrusively. This was the need of the day, for not only Nun Theodosia but most all of the emigres were desperately poor. Why would he have done such a silly thing -- let's say a benefactor had given the Archbishop money to spend as he saw fit -- as purchasing toys in the late 1950s and beginning of the 60s ?

The writers of this propaganda puff piece are counting on the fact that readers will fail to know enough about how terrible World War II was for the French. Instead, the writers figure that Americans, always ignorant of foreign affairs, will project the vast wealth and luxury of the United States today onto a time when people were barely surviving. Jobs would have scarce, for example ; the cost of living unaffordable or nearly so.
I don't believe that St John had any major benefactors who would have paid for toys. The thought would NEVER have occurred either to them or to St John himself.

There is no other example of St John 'teaching children mercy' than this purported one. His attention was on praying for the sick person, not making a splashy gift of something material which was not absolutely vital. Again, the MP scripters of this interview assume that people reading it do not study carefully the memories of St John's life as told by the original emigres.

It appears the MP is trying to remold St John into someone who will fit their political goals regarding the descendants of the emigration. The attempt fails, for none of it sounds like the St John as described by those who knew him best. The words seem to weave the image of an imposter St John.

Had there been such a wealthy donor, a decent place for the Church services would have been secured ! Not a moldy garage likely full of rats that had to be cleared out by the loyal parishioners who were too principled to go to the rue Daru church which was under Greek EP rule. Clearly, there was no large investor in the Rocor parish in Paris in that difficult postwar era.

As for purchasing the stuffed animals, these would have been sold at small shops at a quite high price. It sounds as though - IF the story of Nun Theodosia's is true - this is where they went that day. Had the group of St John and children gone to one of the large department stores like Galeries Lafayette or Bon Marche, surely, she would have held THAT trip in her memory, for those stores were even then world-famous as dazzling the customer with vast displays of goods and beautiful surroundings in which to shop.

Finally, let's look at the claim the nun now living in Ukraine issues that St John let her keep the small rabbit. Does that make any sense ? IF he were really trying to teach a tiny group of children a lesson, he would never have condoned her holding back on giving the smaller rabbit away. Then, too, why would Philip be denounced as having a tragic denouement in store for the same exact refusal ? We will get to Philip in the next post.

Neither would St John have likely called the girl "Bunny". That doesn't sound like St John at all. He did call children by their nicknames derived from their formal first names, as is commonly known. But he was too dignified and old school to give her a casual name like this. Again, the MP depends on the reader's lack of acuteness in every area to concoct these far-fetched scenarios.


User avatar
Barbara
Protoposter
Posts: 3380
Joined: Sat 29 September 2012 10:03 pm

Re: Fake Spiritual Daughter of St John Maximovitch ?

Postby Barbara » Fri 27 April 2018 4:15 am

My feeling overall is that Nun Theodosia's memories of her own role vis a vis St John are inflated. There is none alive to refute her stories. This in fact could be a reason for the long delay in her purported coming forward with her testimony about St John.

Also, this propaganda ploy would never have worked around the time of the 2007 union of MP with formerly independent Rocor. Reading this, many smart Rocor Priests would have shot down the stories she spins. Even this plant may possibly have caused some proponents of that union to cancel their support. This is why - I believe - the MP put this story on ice for quite some years, until - notably - there was no turning back for Rocor. The article was published toward the end of 2017, AFTER the 10 year celebration was conducted amidst big fanfare.

Aside : for example, a personal visit by Pu tin to Rocor-MP hierarchs took place after the consecration of the new New Martyrs Cathedral in May 2017. Now, the famous sculptor Salavat Scherbakov said in an interview with the Washington Post that he had only met Putin 4 or 5 times at the opening ceremonies for his own statues, such as the St Vladimir the Great monument at Borovitskaya outside the Kremlin. But, the sculptor lamented, Putin is so busy that he has no time say more than a few words. So why did Putin make that special guest appearance to meet the Rocor-MP Synod ? No one knows, but one assumes that this was a reward bestowed upon Rocor-MP for cooperating.

Nun Theodosia tells us that she - mysteriously, for not even one detail is given - returned to Ukraine in 1999. This is the opposite of 1666, in a way. Perhaps this repatriation occurred then or it was a number selected to subconsciously convey victory over the devil [ the devil in this case meaning the staunchly anti-Communist emigration with Rocor as its spiritual leader ]. She does not even enlighten us as to what her duties could be at the Lavra. Perhaps there are some adjunct positions for nuns, but I didn't see a single nun when I spent time there, only monks. This was a little while before she appeared there, but things don't change that fast usually. There might be some duties assigned to nuns, but they would not be guides for tourists, or any such interface with the public. The logical work given to Nun Theodosia would be as a guide for foreign visitors due to her several languages and experience abroad.

User avatar
Maria
Archon
Posts: 7901
Joined: Sat 12 June 2004 12:39 am
Faith: True Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: GOC
Location: USA

Re: Fake Spiritual Daughter of St John Maximovitch ?

Postby Maria » Fri 27 April 2018 5:00 am

Barbara wrote:My feeling overall is that Nun Theodosia's memories of her own role vis a vis St John are inflated. There is none alive to refute her stories. This in fact could be a reason for the long delay in her purported coming forward with her testimony about St John.

Also, this propaganda ploy would never have worked around the time of the 2007 union of MP with formerly independent Rocor. Reading this, many smart Rocor Priests would have shot down the stories she spins. Even this plant may possibly have caused some proponents of that union to cancel their support. This is why - I believe - the MP put this story on ice for quite some years, until - notably - there was no turning back for Rocor. The article was published toward the end of 2017, AFTER the 10 year celebration was conducted amidst big fanfare.

Aside : for example, a personal visit by Pu tin to Rocor-MP hierarchs took place after the consecration of the new New Martyrs Cathedral in May 2017. Now, the famous sculptor Salavat Scherbakov said in an interview with the Washington Post that he had only met Putin 4 or 5 times at the opening ceremonies for his own statues, such as the St Vladimir the Great monument at Borovitskaya outside the Kremlin. But, the sculptor lamented, Putin is so busy that he has no time say more than a few words. So why did Putin make that special guest appearance to meet the Rocor-MP Synod ? No one knows, but one assumes that this was a reward bestowed upon Rocor-MP for cooperating.

Nun Theodosia tells us that she - mysteriously, for not even one detail is given - returned to Ukraine in 1999. This is the opposite of 1666, in a way. Perhaps this repatriation occurred then or it was a number selected to subconsciously convey victory over the devil [ the devil in this case meaning the staunchly anti-Communist emigration with Rocor as its spiritual leader ]. She does not even enlighten us as to what her duties could be at the Lavra. Perhaps there are some adjunct positions for nuns, but I didn't see a single nun when I spent time there, only monks. This was a little while before she appeared there, but things don't change that fast usually. There might be some duties assigned to nuns, but they would not be guides for tourists, or any such interface with the public. The logical work given to Nun Theodosia would be as a guide for foreign visitors due to her several languages and experience abroad.


This entire post is mere speculation, Barbara. It is not edifying at all. Why are you posting this kind of information?
Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me a sinner.

User avatar
Barbara
Protoposter
Posts: 3380
Joined: Sat 29 September 2012 10:03 pm

Re: Fake Spiritual Daughter of St John Maximovitch ?

Postby Barbara » Sun 13 May 2018 3:45 am

Further to the point about the wildly improbable prophecies put into the mouth of St John Maximovitch, let us compare with another great Saint. Hieroschemamonk Feofil of this same Kiev Caves Lavra made prophecies along these lines :

"A noblewoman, Maria Kozminishna Shepeleva, often came to the Kitayevskaya Hermitage with her four year old son, and she always went to Starets Feofil for a blessing. The Blessed One liked her very much and each time he met her in the monastery yard he would look at her young son and say, "Aha! Here comes a little monk."

Once he called the child to his cell and gave him a pile of treacle-cakes. "Hold out your hands. Eat the cakes." The boy ate them up with gusto and the Starets encouraged him, "Eat, eat. When you grow up you will accept Christ, not treacle-cakes."

The Starets' prophecy came to pass. The child grew up, was sent to the Lavra printing shop for instruction, then he became postulant and later a spiritual father in the Lavra respected by all."
http://livingorthodoxfaith.blogspot.com ... art-6.html

Only constructive forecasts are delivered by true Saints about individuals. Sometimes, as in the case of a certain Ivan Bolshakov, a drunken factory worker, Starets Feofil prophesied his repose that very night [which came true]. The purpose was to warn the laborer to prepare himself spiritually and at the minimum, don a new clean shirt the Elder provided for the man's funeral. But Bolshakov mocked the Starets and, like the modern morality play The Wedding Shirt [ see viewtopic.php?f=4&t=10001&p=68935&hilit=The+Wedding+Shirt#p68935 ], sold the garment in order to purchase a few drinks at the tavern, where he told everybody about Feofil's strange prediction.
Let's just say that Ivan was not among the living by midnight.

However, to imagine that a real Saint would say that the child Philip "will come to a bad end" because of his - purportedly - having refused to part with a stuffed animal is absurd !




Return to “World Orthodox, Name-Worshiping, and Vagante Jurisdictions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests